Another greenhorn question here

[jtbakv]

I have a black angus cow and a black angus bull I would think I would get a black calf but no I got a red calf neither is registered. so I would think both had dominate red genes is this correct or I am out in left field?

 

[dun]

I have a black angus cow and a black angus bull I would think I would get a black calf but no I got a red calf neither is registered. so I would think both had dominate red genes is this correct or I am out in left field?

The red gene is not dominant, black is. What you have is a heterozygous black bull (one red gene and one black gene) and a heterozygous black cow (one red gene and one black gene). The law of averages caught up and each passed a red gene. To go a little further, that red calf is homozygous red (2 red genes) and can;t have a black calf unless bred to a black animal that has at least one black gene (heterozygous black-one red gene and one black gene or homozygous black - 2 black genes) that passes a black gene.

 

[DOC HARRIS]

I have a black angus cow and a black angus bull I would think I would get a black calf but no I got a red calf neither is registered. so I would think both had dominate red genes is this correct or I am out in left field?

The red gene is not dominant, black is. What you have is a heterozygous black bull (one red gene and one black gene) and a heterozygous black cow (one red gene and one black gene). The law of averages caught up and each passed a red gene. To go a little further, that red calf is homozygous red (2 red genes) and can;t have a black calf unless bred to a black animal that has at least one black gene (heterozygous black-one red gene and one black gene or homozygous black - 2 black genes) that passes a black gene.

CORRECT!

DOC HARRIS

 

[VanC]

The only thing I would add to dun's post is that it doesn't matter whether the cow and bull are registered or not. The same principles apply either way.

 

[3waycross]

The only thing I would add to dun's post is that it doesn't matter whether the cow and bull are registered or not. The same principles apply either way.

Not arguing Van but is should matter if they were registered. If they were both registered the odds of this happening would have to be extremely low. No?

 

[dun]

The only thing I would add to dun's post is that it doesn't matter whether the cow and bull are registered or not. The same principles apply either way.

Not arguing Van but is should matter if they were registered. If they were both registered the odds of this happening would have to be extremely low. No?

Extremely low but still possible though not likely.

 

[jcarkie]

the red gene will show up about 1 in 4 calves. if both parents have a red gene. i have solid black cow that had a calf by a registered solid red gelbvieh bull the calf has a mottley face. last year she was bred to a registered hereford bull and the calves are marked the same. the reason is the cows mom was a horned hereford her dad a brangus she is solid black. commercial cows can really make the colors dfferent.

 

[VanC]

The only thing I would add to dun's post is that it doesn't matter whether the cow and bull are registered or not. The same principles apply either way.

Not arguing Van but is should matter if they were registered. If they were both registered the odds of this happening would have to be extremely low. No?

You're right. Since the red factor is considered a genetic defect by the AAA I'd guess that it doesn't pop up too often anymore in registered herds. I imagine it probably doesn't pop up that often registered or not. Heck, both parents have to carry it, and then there's only a 25% chance that the calf would be red, so the odds are against it. I don't know the frequency of it, but I do know that the AAA has a list of known registered red factor carriers on its website, so it does happen.

But what I meant was that the genetic principle would be the same either way. If a cow or bull has the red factor then it has the red factor. Registering it won't make it go away. Shoot, now I'm confused so I'd better shut up now. :lol2:

http://www.angus.org/pub/DefectsAnmList ... vIg3UTE%3d

 

[dun]

the red gene will show up about 1 in 4 calves. if both parents have a red gene. i have solid black cow that had a calf by a registered solid red gelbvieh bull the calf has a mottley face. last year she was bred to a registered hereford bull and the calves are marked the same. the reason is the cows mom was a horned hereford her dad a brangus she is solid black. commercial cows can really make the colors dfferent.

The 1 in 4 works for statistics but not necesarrily in real life. Granny has been bred to either a polled Hereford, Red Angus or a red Simmenthal bull every year for the 15 year we've had her. One red calf in all that time.

 

[DOC HARRIS]

the red gene will show up about 1 in 4 calves. if both parents have a red gene. i have solid black cow that had a calf by a registered solid red gelbvieh bull the calf has a mottley face. last year she was bred to a registered hereford bull and the calves are marked the same. the reason is the cows mom was a horned hereford her dad a brangus she is solid black. commercial cows can really make the colors dfferent.

The 1 in 4 works for statistics but not necesarrily in real life. Granny has been bred to either a polled Hereford, Red Angus or a red Simmenthal bull every year for the 15 year we've had her. One red calf in all that time.

You are right again dun! As the Genetics will prove, over time, the ratio of 1 to 4 is correct, but the larger number of matings (for example up in the thousands!) using the same individuals will "prove" closer to the 1-4 ratio. The first several 'hundred" progeny (using figures only and not necessarily 'live' animals) could be either black or red, and that would THROW the geneticIsts into a blue funk, and then the following 800 to 1000 could be the opposing color (either black or red). That would prompt the witnesses to claim that ( . . .Figures don't lie, but liars figure!. . .) But the 1 - 4 ratio would still fall true to form, given enough matings to justify the Mendalian Law.

DOC HARRIS