Looking at a couple yearling, open heifers on an upcoming sale. One that I really like has a BW EPD of +8.1, and a CED EPD of -10. Would you consider an Angus heifer with this high of a BW EPD? I don't think I have ever seen anything this high, what is the highest it can be?
Angus w/high BW EPD
- Thread starter Dee
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Dee":3veu72ua said:
If she looks good, and sells cheap because of her EPD's. Give her a try! Put her with the right bull to help tone down ("potentially" correct) the EPD's in the offspring. Let her prove her worth herself, she may suprise you. (heck, she's just a heifer). You might be stuck with bad numbers on paper, but could end up with a good producing cow that brings you profit. Don't "always" let EPD's be your deciding factor, unless you breed all on paper.... ;-) Go to the AAA web site. They should have all the trends as far as EPD's listed which should show the highs and lows of each given EPD trait, as well as breed averages.
Ouch! :shock: I bet Momma runs from the bull next time. 8.1 is the highest BW I have heard of. It would take a triple minus BW bull number to make that baby slip right out. What was her birth weight when she was born? Does it tell in the book?
Dee,
I have a 95 model (angus) with a 8.7 bw epd. She has had 8 calves never needed help but it is harder to sell her calves with their high bw epds. Check the across breed epds you will find that would be a 1 or less in a few breeds. Bottom line if you like her buy her.
I have a 95 model (angus) with a 8.7 bw epd. She has had 8 calves never needed help but it is harder to sell her calves with their high bw epds. Check the across breed epds you will find that would be a 1 or less in a few breeds. Bottom line if you like her buy her.
Dee":1kwxuq5y said:
Without seeing her or knowing her breeding, I'd say "no", I wouldn't consider her. My mind might be changed with more info. But it depends on what you plan to do with her and her calves. If you're planning to sell heifers for showing, it probably won't be a concern. If you're planning to sell bulls to commercial cattlemen, IMO, it will be a problem because they just don't want bulls with "high" BW EPDs. As Three T wrote, you'll have a harder time selling Angus with a BW EPD of 8 than those with breed average EPDs. (We try to keep our BW EPDs below 5)
ollie
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Just my little old opinion and I sure don't know anything about epd's . I think if you drag the next national champion heifer into the show ring with a 8 bw epd you better just be going for the experience. Most judges will beat you nine ways from Sunday . Buy her for commercial price and turn her commercial. Her progeny are unmarketable. It doesn't matter if she calves them all weighing 50#.
What sale is this? Are all of them high in BW EPD's? That is a biggie! I used a +5.2 BW EPD on Larger framed old cows two years ago, and spent most of my time pulling 100lb. + big dumb calves out of them! Now nothing over a +3.5 ever again.
gbisch
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That is a high EPD, but you can't look strictly at EPD's.
If the heifer is a short bodied, Frame Score 3 heifer, I wouldn't buy her.
On the other hand, If she's a long bodied Frame score 7, she wouldn't probably ever have a problem with calving. Selling her calves for breeding with high EPD's would be tougher to do.
You can't look strictly at EPD's, body shape has a lot to do with calving ease.
If the heifer is a short bodied, Frame Score 3 heifer, I wouldn't buy her.
On the other hand, If she's a long bodied Frame score 7, she wouldn't probably ever have a problem with calving. Selling her calves for breeding with high EPD's would be tougher to do.
You can't look strictly at EPD's, body shape has a lot to do with calving ease.
ollie":1ixju3lc said:
I think that depends on the breed. I don't do shows, but have been told by someone who does, very successfully, that EPDs are only used in Angus shows as a final discriminator. The person who told me that was disappointed when the heifer she considered her best sold worst in her consignment, mainly because of a "high" BW EPD.
I watched some of the Summitcrest sale on RFD today. I wasn't paying a lot of attention, then realized they were having trouble getting a bid on a bull. When I looked at the screen, the bull had a BW EPD of 5.5. He sold for about $1600, where bulls all around him were selling for $2-4,000. I don't have a catalog; there might have been some other reason the buyers discounted him, but we've found out that buyers tend to shy away from Angus bulls with BW EPDs of 5 or over.
Jake
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Frankie":2fwl4kal said:
we shy away from anything over 3.0 Heifer bulls around 0.0
ollie
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It doesn't depend on the breed Frankie. The same judges that judge the Angus breed judge every other breed. They will absolutely beat you on epd's. Your fellow angus breeders are sometimes the judge. Two pounds difference on an unproven heifer who's epd accuracy is worth nothing, shouldn't be used in the show ring. It is.Frankie":17aw1sln said:
ollie":2she7qb1 said:
Good point Ollie. I think in some ways it is the show circuts attempt to align show cattle with good breeding cattle, but it is still numbers, and as everybody knows, numbers can be fudged. Paper "reflects" performance,.(good or bad)... the animal "proves" it...(good or bad) ;-)
Frankie,
Google(across breed EPD) explains it on quite a few different sites.
I agree with about all the replies on this subject. Ipersonally would still buy her if I liked her. I still think people need to take more than just epds into consideration although I think epds are a very very valuable tool.
Google(across breed EPD) explains it on quite a few different sites.
I agree with about all the replies on this subject. Ipersonally would still buy her if I liked her. I still think people need to take more than just epds into consideration although I think epds are a very very valuable tool.
This is a yearling heifer on the upcoming LaGrand sale. Her actual BW was #108. If you want to dig deeper, she is lot #313, on pg. 68 @ http://www.lagrandranch.com
Or her reg. # is 14682128 if you search on http://www.angus.org
She has alot of PAPA...PAPA Equator, PAPA Power, PAPA Envious, etc. on the sire side. Her 365 day weight was 1176. Thanks for pointing out the obvious fact that it would be difficult to sell a bull with that kind of BW EPD. I just want heifers, and plan on selling any bulls from my purebreds, so I tend to have tunnel vision, and forget the bull aspect.
Or her reg. # is 14682128 if you search on http://www.angus.org
She has alot of PAPA...PAPA Equator, PAPA Power, PAPA Envious, etc. on the sire side. Her 365 day weight was 1176. Thanks for pointing out the obvious fact that it would be difficult to sell a bull with that kind of BW EPD. I just want heifers, and plan on selling any bulls from my purebreds, so I tend to have tunnel vision, and forget the bull aspect.
Jake
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she should be alright when bred to an extreme calving ease bull. Other than the BW she looks like a good animal pedigree and EPD wise. I would continue to breed her to calving ease bulls throughout her life.
Dee,
Sire is a 6.8 dam is a -.3 she must of ratioed pretty high in the herd when they turned in their AHIR records, otherwise she would have been about a 3.3. She has some frame in her ped. if bw is the only thing holding you back I wouldn't worry about it. Breed her to a low birth bull as a heifer and go from there. Good Luck
Sire is a 6.8 dam is a -.3 she must of ratioed pretty high in the herd when they turned in their AHIR records, otherwise she would have been about a 3.3. She has some frame in her ped. if bw is the only thing holding you back I wouldn't worry about it. Breed her to a low birth bull as a heifer and go from there. Good Luck
