Angus color percentage

[Katpau]

I know for a fact that a non-black animal can be qualified for CAB is when the slaughterhouses didn't kill enough black cattle so they'll take any colors in. And I guess dairy & brahman influenced cattle are allowed to be qualified for CAB? I meant majority of Holstein steers are qualified for CAB..

This is completely untrue and if it is happening, those slaughterhouses are committing fraud and should be reported and penalized.
I will post the rules for CAB again. Please read them and note that cattle that exhibit dairy influence, are specifically excluded. That would include anything that resembles Holstein. Cattle that exhibit traits of the Brahman would also likely be excluded from consideration with the neck hump rule. In most cases, cattle that are heavy in Bos Indicus breeding would not meet the marbling requirement anyway.

CAB was first sold in October of 1978. At that time the black requirement almost guaranteed the cattle were sired by Angus bulls. I'm not sure anyone at the time realized just how successful the CAB brand would be. It changed the direction of Angus breeders to where carcass traits were often stressed over other more maternal traits, and it also changed the direction of numerous other breeds that had the ability to breed up to purebred. There are now black cattle with higher marbling in Simmental and numerous other breeds.

Requirements for the Certified Angus Beef® (CAB) brand
Live cattle must be Angus-influenced: have a predominately (51%) solid black hide, or AngusSource® enrolled to be eligible for CAB evaluation. They must meet all of the 10 following criteria to be certified by USDA graders and labeled with the Certified Angus Beef® brand:

Modest or higher degree of marbling
Medium or fine marbling texture
"A" maturity (both lean & skeletal)
10- to 16-square-inch ribeye area
1,050 pounds or less hot carcass weight
Less than 1-inch fat thickness
Superior muscling (restricts dairy influence)
Practically free of capillary rupture
No dark cutting characteristics
No neck hump exceeding 2 inches

 

[MNBelties]

I guess hundreds of butchers at these slaughterhouses lied to us then.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

"hundreds of butchers" - what type of business are you in that you would be exposed to "hundreds of butchers"?
Like Katpau stated. That is fraud and totally illegal. Funny all the years I have been involved in beef, I never heard this claim. And if it was happening, word would be getting out. IMHO

 

[greggy]

We have rigourous systems here, but there are always those who do or seek to skirt the fringes or go outside. It does not seem to be talked about.

Taking non pure angus animals in a scheme that uses that name would seem to me to be stretching things anyway, point being, we are marketed and sold lies everywhere...but there has to be some sort of accepted standard that makes something viable and available.....

 

[Katpau]

I guess hundreds of butchers at these slaughterhouses lied to us then.

To be labeled with the Certified Angus Beef® brand, "they must meet all of the ...criteria to be certified by USDA graders". So you are claiming that you are aware of hundreds of slaughterhouses where USDA graders have falsified the paperwork in order to grade ineligible cattle as CAB. This would seem highly unlikely and if it is happening should certainly be investigated. USDA graders would have no reason to falsify this information unless there is some sort of bribery involved. Those graders are employees of the Federal Government and there should be no financial incentive for them to falsify this information. Could there be a few on the take?...Maybe, but hundreds?

 

[Katpau]

Greggy, if you read the rules you will understand that CAB was not designed to indicate the meat was from "pure Angus" cattle. It is primarily a label to indicate the product meets certain quality standards. It is possible for a pure Angus animal to NOT qualify for the label while a black hided animal who is many generations away from pure does qualify. The CAB rules were first written back in the 1970's, at a time when black meant Angus. The original purpose was to encourage the use of quality Black Angus bulls, not to sell only pure Angus beef.

 

[greggy]

Yes, I understand.

It hardly matters to me being a half world away, but was saying people do bend rules, and we often accept such bending of rules.....

When I eat my burger, who really knows ? And large organisations etc can hardly claim to be very clean regarding rules, regs or laws etc

 

[Allenw]

I guess hundreds of butchers at these slaughterhouses lied to us then.

To be labeled with the Certified Angus Beef® brand, "they must meet all of the ...criteria to be certified by USDA graders". So you are claiming that you are aware of hundreds of slaughterhouses where USDA graders have falsified the paperwork in order to grade ineligible cattle as CAB. This would seem highly unlikely and if it is happening should certainly be investigated. USDA graders would have no reason to falsify this information unless there is some sort of bribery involved. Those graders are employees of the Federal Government and there should be no financial incentive for them to falsify this information. Could there be a few on the take?...Maybe, but hundreds?

Who does say a calf qualifies as CAB? It's not a USDA grade.

 

[M.Magis]

Who does say a calf qualifies as CAB? It's not a USDA grade.

According to the FAQ on CABs website and some other sites I've read, the beef is first graded for it's USDA grade, then afterward it's graded to meet certain branded beef requirements. Not just CAB, there are a ton of branded beef programs. All done by the USDA inspectors.

 

[cbcr]

There have been other breeds that have had carcasses qualify for CAB. A few years ago, there was some CAB meat that was DNA tested and it came back that only 17% of the meat could be traced to Angus genetics.

IF CAB is supposed to be separate, then why when you look a beef recalls some of the recalls include CAB products?

CAB anymore is a marketing scheme. The only thing that it does is tell the consumer that it is a "Choice" grade of beef. Many meat that is sold in markets is select.

There have been some companies that in order to assure that their product is of Angus genetics require documented information that the live animal is really Angus influenced.

 

[MNBelties]

There have been other breeds that have had carcasses qualify for CAB. A few years ago, there was some CAB meat that was DNA tested and it came back that only 17% of the meat could be traced to Angus genetics.

IF CAB is supposed to be separate, then why when you look a beef recalls some of the recalls include CAB products?

CAB anymore is a marketing scheme. The only thing that it does is tell the consumer that it is a "Choice" grade of beef. Many meat that is sold in markets is select.

There have been some companies that in order to assure that their product is of Angus genetics require documented information that the live animal is really Angus influenced.

Be careful, you don't want upset these folks just like I did. I knew a Pinzgauer breeder that sent his animals to a feedlot and majority of his animals graded prime for CAB frequently.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

Not upsetting anyone that knows the requirements for CAB. As I said. It is a PROGRAM not a certification that it is Angus. It is a program to "guarantee" quality meat.
I bet many of my steers that have qualified over the years have had as little as 3-5% Angus. The black gene is a dominant gene. Very easy to incorporate into your breeding program.

 

[M.Magis]

Be careful, you don't want upset these folks just like I did. I knew a Pinzgauer breeder that sent his animals to a feedlot and majority of his animals graded prime for CAB frequently.

You said you knew of "hundreds of butchers" told you that non BLACK cattle qualify for C.A.B. Now you're saying it was Pinzgauer breeder. Of course some Pinzgauer could quality for CAB, maybe you should look through the requirements again. They've been posted here.

 

[MNBelties]

Be careful, you don't want upset these folks just like I did. I knew a Pinzgauer breeder that sent his animals to a feedlot and majority of his animals graded prime for CAB frequently.

You said you knew of "hundreds of butchers" told you that non BLACK cattle qualify for C.A.B. Now you're saying it was Pinzgauer breeder. Of course some Pinzgauer could quality for CAB, maybe you should look through the requirements again. They've been posted here.

And they didn't following the requirements, I guess. Feel free to call the CAB out on it.

 

[MNBelties]

Not upsetting anyone that knows the requirements for CAB. As I said. It is a PROGRAM not a certification that it is Angus. It is a program to "guarantee" quality meat.
I bet many of my steers that have qualified over the years have had as little as 3-5% Angus. The black gene is a dominant gene. Very easy to incorporate into your breeding program.

And I guess you don't need a black hide :cowboy: that would be my final response to you, Jeanne.

 

[Katpau]

Not upsetting anyone that knows the requirements for CAB. As I said. It is a PROGRAM not a certification that it is Angus. It is a program to "guarantee" quality meat.
I bet many of my steers that have qualified over the years have had as little as 3-5% Angus. The black gene is a dominant gene. Very easy to incorporate into your breeding program.

And I guess you don't need a black hide :cowboy: that would be my final response to you, Jeanne.

One more time. YOU DO NEED A MOSTLY BLACK HIDE. Just because you apparently know 100's of liars, does not change that rule.

The rules say "Live cattle must be Angus-influenced: have a predominately (51%) solid black hide, or AngusSource® enrolled to be eligible for CAB evaluation."

 

[Katpau]

Just to be clear, "Prime" is a quality grade assigned by USDA. You don't need to be black or Angus to receive that grade. Grading Prime does not mean an animal qualifies for CAB, but if it is also over 51% black, there is the possibility it might also qualify to be labeled as CAB (Certified Angus Beef) if it were harvested in a USDA approved facility that is licensed and pays to participate in the CAB program. I am wondering if MNBelties is confused in thinking that because those Pinzgauers graded Prime they were then labeled as CAB?

When a harvested animal is identified as Angus-type, an A stamp is applied to the round, or some other mark such as ink on the hocks. The grading stand later considers each carcass marked to determine if each is eligible to evaluate for an Angus program. Identification of Angus-type cattle at harvest takes specially-trained plant employees with oversight by USDA graders. Today's plants are outfitted with video cameras by which USDA graders monitor the A-stamp application from the grading office.

Certified Angus Beef LLC receives funding from licensed packers and processors, which pay approximately 2 cents per pound of branded product that they sell. Only those licensed facilities would be approved to sell the CAB brand.

 

[M.Magis]

And they didn't following the requirements, I guess. Feel free to call the CAB out on it.

The more you post, the more it becomes clear you don't understand what you're talking about.

 

[WFfarm]

Before Certified Angus come along, a lot of black beef cattle in commercial herds come from Holstein crosses. Black hide does not guarantee Angus influence.

 

[Stickney94]

Superior muscling (restricts dairy influence)

No neck hump exceeding 2 inches

Having raised several jersey x angus cross steers and still owning some jersey x angus heifers I'd say that "restricting dairy influence" at a slaughterhouse is merely words on paper. It would take a very well trained eye to pick out the jersey x angus steers with any accuracy from a pot belly full of black steers.

A two inch neck hump is, in my opinion, a fairly high bar to "fit" under. Looking at images of Brangus cattle I'd think that wouldn't be very hard to get through either.


I grew up in cattle country South Dakota and 30 years ago my Dad's herd of PB angus was a total outlier. What was once a horizon of herds of herefords, charolais, reds, motley marked x-breds, is now a nearly uniform "black" cattle herd from pasture to pasture/farm to farm.

CAB was successful at driving "angus influence" for sure.