Angus bull (pic)

[El_Putzo]

Comments on this guy, please. Let 'er rip, he's not mine, but we will be using him this spring.

We've decided to use him on some angus x simme commercial cows to try to get replacements. Here are his numbers:

CED = 8
BW = 1.5
WW = 61
YW = 101
YH = .6
SC = .97
CEM = 8
Milk = 31
MW = 51
MH = .7
$EN = -8.78
CW = 7
Marb = .35
REA = .15
Fat = .009

He is a Bon Vew New Design 1407 son out of a SVF Gdar 216 LTD daughter.

 

[Kent]

Looks good. It might be just the picture, but he looks like he could be stretched out just a bit and his tailhead is a little peaked, but overall I like him. I would use him.

 

[Jovid]

I would agree that he needs to be a little longer if I were going to use him.

 

[El_Putzo]

More info.

This link shows pictures of some of his sons. They are lots 1-7.

http://www.circlearanch.com/pdfs/set2_6-15.pdf

 

[Jovid]

His sons could use some length also.

I believe this was the sale that was on RFD the other day and I noticed most of the bulls they sold needed more length.

 

[El_Putzo]

Correct, the sale was on RFD saturday. I do agree in the pictures they look kind of short, but they didn't seem that way in person. Definitely not as long as a bus, but not short either from what I could tell.

Keep em' coming.

 

[redfornow]

El_Putzo,

What is the semen running you?
He looks good to me, could be alittle longer like they said but I would use him, looks like a solid bull with solid numbers.
MD

 

[El_Putzo]

El_Putzo,

What is the semen running you?
He looks good to me, could be alittle longer like they said but I would use him, looks like a solid bull with solid numbers.
MD

$20 per straw. I'm not sure on certs as I didn't check into it. The ranch that owns him is right up the road from me, so I took a trip to have a look see.

 

[George Monk]

I bought a Circle A bull and was very pleased. The EPDs listed on the bull I bought seemed to carry over into his offspring. Cirlce A have really improved their EPDs in the last few years. I wouldn't hesistate to use any of their bulls. I think they do a great job. Great follow ups from them also.

 

[DOC HARRIS]

James -

This is a fine looking bull. Others have commented that he could be a little longer, and I don't disagree, however his numbers are great enough that I wouldn't concern myself too much about his length. Insofar as phenotype is concerned, I would like to see a rear view, because I imagine he could stand some additional thickness, even though that is not appear to be a severe fault with this bull. Concerning genotype, the REA should be higher than .15 and the $EN is a negative, which so many individuals have these days. But his growth spread is terrific, along with the 61 WW! The fact that you are going to use him on Angus x Simmental Cows should give you some :shock: EYE-POPPING replacements! Could you post his dams Reg. number? His scrotal of +97 is a bonus also, and his replacement heifers should be fertile and prolific! I think that you made an intelligent decision to use him.

DOC HARRIS

 

[RebelCritter]

Wow, he looks really nice! Id use him.

 

[El_Putzo]

Doc,

Here is his full name and reg number: Circle A Endeavor 2058 Reg: +14098261

I figured this way you can look at his whole pedigree.

 

[J]

Correct, the sale was on RFD saturday. I do agree in the pictures they look kind of short, but they didn't seem that way in person. Definitely not as long as a bus, but not short either from what I could tell.

Keep em' coming.

Speaking of sales on RFD and length, I watched one the other day. We've got one of those wide screen tv's and I kept telling myself man those bulls are TOO LONG. :shock: Looked like their backs would be weak they were so dang long. Turned out I think I had it where it was stretching the picture to fit the screen and it distorted them some, I changed it to standard and then they looked a little stubby to me. I wasn't sure which way I should have been watching it :???: It would play with you mind. ;-)

 

[DOC HARRIS]

Doc,

Here is his full name and reg number: Circle A Endeavor 2058 Reg: +14098261

I figured this way you can look at his whole pedigree.

James - Oh! - okay! He is a 5/8 sibling to some of the very popular bulls today, and there are too many to name here, but here are a couple: Riverbend Mile High 3718 (The $45,000 second high-selling bull of the 2005 National Western Angus Sale) and Rito 2V1 of 2536 1407 (also known as "The Carcass King" and bred by Wehrmann Angus of Virginia). Being a son of BV New Design 1407 immediately stamps him as having a great pedigree, and with the Rito line (from Rito 9J9) on his dams side only enhances his value in my opinion! I would like to see him when I visit you this May, if possible!

DOC HARRIS

 

[LFF]

I think you will need a very good forage system for the replacement heifers. His milk epd is very high and from what I'm hearing many angus have too much milk for the forage that they are being used with. I believe that approximately a 10 milk epd for angus works well on fescue and if you are breeding hereford cows with a milk epd of 10-15 I would not use a angus bull with a milk epd above 20. Just my poor understanding of epd's and forages.

good luck
LFF

 

[El_Putzo]

Doc,

Thanks for the comments. I'm sorry to inform you though that you won't be able to see him when you come to visit. The reason being is that per Circle A, he had an unfortunate accident while breeding in the pasture last summer and had to be put down.

LFF,

Good comments from you also. This will be my first year to see whether our current forage base of fescue/OG/red clover is sufficient to keep my cattle in working shape. We have had commercial cattle on the farm for many moons, but hadn't really paid much attention to EPDs up until the last couple of years. The commercial cows are all angus x simme so I can only assume that they milk as well or better than the average angus. My Herefords on the other hand are right around breed avg (14) with a range of 9-23. This is one of the criteria I used in chosing my AI bulls to this point. They range from 17-21 on MM. As you say, I want my cows to milk well, but not too the point where they can't maintain condition, because that creates a whole new set of problems. Any experiences with the forage base I've mentioned above?

 

[dun]

This will be my first year to see whether our current forage base of fescue/OG/red clover is sufficient to keep my cattle in working shape. Any experiences with the forage base I've mentioned above?

I have little experience with it, and it works. Some cows will take a yer to adjust but it seems the younger they get on the stuff the less time it takes.
It's an economicaland effective forage base.

dun

 

[El_Putzo]

Thanks Dun.

I feel like I need to explain a little better. I know that the forage base we have now will support my dad's commercial cows, but I have no idea what milk numbers they have (obviously they don't have epds as they are commercial). Now that I do have some cows with EPDs it will be interesting to see if I can tell if the higher milking cows are harder to keep in shape on the same forage. It's all a learning experience.

 

[LFF]

Form my observation of Herefords on the type forage you are using, I've found that a Milk epd of 23-24 is as high or higher than most people should be using. If you can believe the breed adjustment figures that is used for converting epd's to angus base , then about a 8-10 milk epd for angus should be good for your forage. I currently am using herefords with milk epd's of 13-23 and have purchased some angus with epd's for milk in the 15-18 range. It seems to be a trade off with the higher number milk epd's and growth. Alot of cattle with lower milk numbers have higher growth epd's. Jack Ward recommends that purebred producers limit the milk epd on hereford bulls to 15 whenever they are sold for commercial producers to use on angus cows. Jack use to work with the angus association so he is very knowedgeable and informed with his recommendation.

Hope I did not ramble too much,
LFF

 

[capt]

This may be too late to help any at all, but here goes. I saw the bull as a long yearling and I did not like him at all. He is(was) a short bodied, weak topped. puss-gutted bull that gave me a question as to how sound he would be in pasture. I would sure be concerned about having too much milk with him being used on SimAngus cows, but if there is a bright spot it just might be the fact that he is a very moderate framed bull, therefore making a smaller cow to feed. It is my opinion that the picture you posted is one of those pictures that are worth a thousand words, yet really do not portray the bull accurately. I would be interested in hearing how he works for you.