Angus, a superior product or superior marketing?

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Do you think Angu has had outside genetics infused into the gene pool?

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There is no doubt in my mind that CAB has been a major force in selling more beef over the past 20 years, not just Angus beef but all beef. The old axiom that 'a rising tide floats all boats' applies here and the CAB program has put more money in every producers pocket.

I sure don't understand all of the criticism of the Angus breed. Perhaps the jealousy exhibited by some is very telling as to why Angus cattle have become so popular. While it seems popular to blame their problems on the Angus breed, I would suggest that the Angus breed simply filled a need that no other breed could. Now, if the Angus breed truly has all of the problems and shortcomings that some say, and if this breeds extreme popularity really is due to high powered marketing that is based on impure genetics and faulty data tabulated with a 'more sales today, who cares about tomorrow attitude' then the table is set for some of the other breeds to step up and take market share from the Angus. But if there were cattle out there that could do that, wouldn't they already be doing it???
 
That is an excellant point Easy. Some associations are doing it and they are making some progress. Time will tell how it all plays out.
 
Angus/Brangus":3bx2ucxf said:
Polluted are not, the fact is that the AAA at least funds research programs (not "claims") to not only identify tenderness traits/characteristics but also act upon them through educating the public and yes - - - a whole lot of marketing. They have also gained more ground in getting closer that illusive thing called "consistency" than anyone else. For some reason, folks get stuck on "marbleing". Yes, there are other breeds that marble well but then can't compare in the shear testing with Angus.

Which would you rather buy, a "netherparts" steak or something where at least the idea of tenderness has been worked on?

That is absolute CRAP!!! Angus are not the only breed to conduct research, many breeds do this. Shorthorns have actually conducted a hell of a lot more, and here in Australia we have a one in a kind, 10 year project running, which is now in it's 6th year. The Durham Research & Development Project for those who are interested.

Angus get by on their fantastic marketing, and all credit to them on this. One thing I notice here is that the blacks are always publishing facts... if the other breeds got up off their a$$es and started doing the same, we might actually provide some competition.
 
WORANCH":2dfgz3l3 said:
guest25":2dfgz3l3 said:
If you call a premium of under 20 dollars ahead on 15.6 percent of 110 million head over 28 years something to crow about it don't take much to influence you or make you happy.

With the greatest of respect g25

If your going to throw numbers out , use them all and get them right.


Since 1978, packers have paid producers an estimated $200 million in direct grid premiums related to CAB acceptance, 95% of it in the last 5 years. Packers also have been the only source of funding for the CAB Program, paying only pennies per pound to use the CAB® brand on cattle meeting our eight specifications.

By reinvesting dollars in the program, we have been able to leverage $5/head in fees from licensed packers into more than $40/head premium that those CAB-licensed packers pay to the producers of Angus cattle accepted for the brand.


More than 13,000 licensees worldwide have sold at least 500 million pounds of CAB product annually for seven years in a row. The brand's acceptance rate of 15.6 percent on more than 110 million Angus-influenced cattle identified for the program since 1978 demonstrates our commitment to quality.

The last word is wrong.
It should read commitment to marketing.

I do not feel that as a whole the angus breed is doing anything but living off the hype that has been sold.
It was drilled into customers heads for years, it didn,t have to be true, even most angus breeders take this hype as fact without ever checking it out for themselves.
CAB on a label does not mean squat as far as quality, but the customer has been trained to think different.
Don,t give the angus assoc. all the credit for this. It was as much the retailers that lined up behind the other guy, Lets follow the big guy marketing, that should be given most of the credit.
 
Been interesting following this thread. I'm not here to bash or stick up for any breed. We have registered and commercial Angus and they work for us--that's all that matters. The trend has obviously been towards black for the last several years, but it's interesting to go to the local sale barn and still see a set of pure hereford bred heifers top the market now and then or come very close. Simple reason--supply and demand. Everyone has went to "black", making some of the other breeds such as Hereford hard to come by in our area. There is still a demand for more cattle than just Angus, always will be. Different cattle suit different people and different environments. I think for some of you to throw all the Angus cattle and anyone who has ever owned Angus into one bucket is unfortunate. In all seriousness, I would be interested to hear how some of you approach marketing your cattle with a lot of the attention being on Angus and black cattle. Obviously the Angus breed and the marketing techniques have advanced in recent years. How have some of you adapted as you sell something other than Angus cattle to continue moving your product at a profit?
 
Since 1978, packers have paid producers an estimated $200 million in direct grid premiums related to CAB acceptance, 95% of it in the last 5 years.

This interesting. If they paid out 95% of the premiums in the last 5 years, what did they pay out before that? How did they ever convince people to go along with this on such paltry payout for the previous 20+ years? I would guess that would be advertising, perhaps?


Brandon, not hacking on you as I enjoy your posts a lot. You seem like you have a lot of good things going on for you. Let's debate a little.

40 years ago, the top Angus breeders owned a group of short, fat, dinky, little toads with a lot of dwarf carriers. If they had stood behind those cattle they WOULD be a hobby breed today. Instead they got rid of the dwarves, sat down, brain stormed with feeders, packers, professors and wrote down what they wanted their cows too look like and they went out and did it (by any means necessary). I qualify that too be "out researched".

Well, they didn't get rid of the dwarves, did they? Herefords definately got rid of them better, but with more breeders being sacrificed. When you said "research" I thought you meant "researc" as in outside peer-reviewed stuff. They haven't done too much of that, really. No more than any other breed, and in fact, their proceedures were "in front" in the 70's, but are now lagging behind other breeds".

Angus was on the cutting edge of the creation of and adoption of EPDs, carcass EPDs, ultrasound, and ET and AI to the point that half of the Angus registered last year were AI and ET calves. Nobody adopts new techology faster and more widely spread within the breed than do the Angus crew.

You've got your history distorted. Simmental had the first Sire Summary. Angus was a leader in EPD in the '70's, but by the early 80's other breeds used far superior methods to adjust data and calcualte EPD. Hell, Hereford had the adjustments for WW in 1986 that AAA just got around to calculating and using in 2002! Simmental was doing in since 87, and every other major breed followed suit by 1991.

New technology faster? AAA COPIED the RAAA in the $EN EPD, waiting until RAAA did the footwork. RAAA and any number of the other breeds ran threshold models for CE, etc for nearly 10 years before AAA did.

RAA has been on total herd reporting for 11 or 12 years now. AAA still doesn't. BTW, it's really the only way to get good, fertility EPD, which the AAA still doesn't have.

Who else came up with the idea of branding their breed?? We could easily have Certified Charolais Beef in fine restaurants or Certified Texas Longhorn for that matter; but nobody else was willing to do the legwork and spend the money to create a brand name. Heck Hardees puts "Angus" in their tv commercials. McDonalds is experimenting with an Angus burger. I bet 90% of the public don't even know that Angus are Black. Angus clearly outworked everybody else in the cattle biz.

Well, they wurely did brand their breed more successfully than any others. But, the sad part is that it is the others that help them achieve the brand. But, that is just one aspect. I consider the "research" and "science" mentioned above to be "work", so I will give you the "brand", but AAA has clearly be outscienced and outresearched by other breeds. that's why I said this one is a question of perspective.


What continental or Brahman breed has done even a decent job over the last 15 years at taking market share??? Most other breeds (red Angus being a little bit of an exception) register far less animals than they did 15 years ago. Either the cattle ARE inferior (and that is arguably true of some breeds) or their breeders just have not done as good a job at getting out there and moving product as the Angus guys have done (probably the case with most breeds).

I don't consider shortterm marketshare or moving product to be the best indicator of longterm success. The other breeds have improved their breeds just as much or moreso in the things they needed to than Angus. All we need to do to see how easily folks can be duped is to honestly look at how little benefit there was to commercial producers for the first 20 years of the CAB program. They left money on the table for 20 years, but now it's OK since they actually get to make a little. You are intelligent enough to realize that these folks didn't have any way to track money left on the table, so they just see what looks good right now. They don't look back and wonder about the past. They ASSUME they were taken care of since they are doing OK now.

Badlands
 
Angus/Brangus:

Consumers are fairly easily led to whatever we want to lead them to, it just takes money and promotion, news coverage helps.

Look at what the "War on Fat" did to demand.

The "Protein" deal brought them back, and CAB had the brand that they could recognize in more places than any other. It's more about "saturation" than anything.

I have personally never had a great eating experience with CAB. I have never found one with great flavor.

Badlands
 
Scotty":2bo9s2ec said:
http://cattletoday.com/associations.shtml

No body likes Angus cattle.
What the heck was that link for?
And obviously somebody likes Angus or we woildn't be discussing why the consumers would rather buy something with an Angus label attached.
 
novatech":1p0f6ib5 said:
WORANCH":1p0f6ib5 said:
guest25":1p0f6ib5 said:
If you call a premium of under 20 dollars ahead on 15.6 percent of 110 million head over 28 years something to crow about it don't take much to influence you or make you happy.

With the greatest of respect g25

If your going to throw numbers out , use them all and get them right.


Since 1978, packers have paid producers an estimated $200 million in direct grid premiums related to CAB acceptance, 95% of it in the last 5 years. Packers also have been the only source of funding for the CAB Program, paying only pennies per pound to use the CAB® brand on cattle meeting our eight specifications.

By reinvesting dollars in the program, we have been able to leverage $5/head in fees from licensed packers into more than $40/head premium that those CAB-licensed packers pay to the producers of Angus cattle accepted for the brand.


More than 13,000 licensees worldwide have sold at least 500 million pounds of CAB product annually for seven years in a row. The brand's acceptance rate of 15.6 percent on more than 110 million Angus-influenced cattle identified for the program since 1978 demonstrates our commitment to quality.

The last word is wrong.
It should read commitment to marketing.

I do not feel that as a whole the angus breed is doing anything but living off the hype that has been sold.
It was drilled into customers heads for years, it didn,t have to be true, even most angus breeders take this hype as fact without ever checking it out for themselves.
CAB on a label does not mean squat as far as quality, but the customer has been trained to think different.
Don,t give the angus assoc. all the credit for this. It was as much the retailers that lined up behind the other guy, Lets follow the big guy marketing, that should be given most of the credit.


Your right they do a great job marketing CAB. But if you don't have a quality product your not going to be sucsessful.

It's to bad that everyone does'nt spent as much time promoting their own breed as they do bashing Angus and CAB.
 
*Cowgirl*":2e19r6c6 said:
Scotty":2e19r6c6 said:
http://cattletoday.com/associations.shtml

No body likes Angus cattle.
What the heck was that link for?
And obviously somebody likes Angus or we woildn't be discussing why the consumers would rather buy something with an Angus label attached.

I know that. I like Angus cattle. The link was to show just how many more cattle are registered than other breeds that some people claim to be superior.
 
Scotty":d8rb425u said:
*Cowgirl*":d8rb425u said:
Scotty":d8rb425u said:
http://cattletoday.com/associations.shtml

No body likes Angus cattle.
What the heck was that link for?
And obviously somebody likes Angus or we woildn't be discussing why the consumers would rather buy something with an Angus label attached.

I know that. I like Angus cattle. The link was to show just how many more cattle are registered than other breeds that some people claim to be superior.
OK

It's to bad that everyone does'nt spent as much time promoting their own breed as they do bashing Angus and CAB.
:clap:
 
FACT....It doesn't matter what the breed or color of the hide.
It takes a good butcher and a good cook.

:lol: :lol: Ya take an old black billygoat. Butcher it. Cut off a hunk of meat, take it out to the shop, whack it a few times with the fencing mall, drive over it a few times with a F-250,
soak it in beer for an hour, sell it to some city slicker for twice what its worth, tell him it was Angus and he will be back for more. :lol: :lol:
 
Angus cattle have good marketing because the packers and the feedlots are behind them. The feedlots like them because they finish quicker than some of the other breeds. If an angus finishes in 100 days and some other breed finishes in 120 days, and it costs $3 per day to feed both animals, the angus saves the feedlot $60 per animal.
Because they finish quicker, they produce smaller cuts of meat. The smaller cut is more appealing to the consumer.
 
Rangenerd":2e7p5egr said:
Angus cattle have good marketing because the packers and the feedlots are behind them. The feedlots like them because they finish quicker than some of the other breeds. If an angus finishes in 100 days and some other breed finishes in 120 days, and it costs $3 per day to feed both animals, the angus saves the feedlot $60 per animal.
Because they finish quicker, they produce smaller cuts of meat. The smaller cut is more appealing to the consumer.


Speaking of those small cuts what is the carcass wt. cutoff up to on the CAB grid? If they are wanting smaller cuts it should be trending down ;-)
 
guest25":3lswm17z said:
Just for the heck of it how much do those yg 4s cost the feed lots. Just how much do they lose from the 85 percent on average that dont make the grade.


Table 1. Effect of Sire Breed on CAB Acceptance Rates.
Sire Breed
Solely
Angus 27.5%

Predominantly
Angus 18.7%

Brangus 10.6%

Other
Breeds 13.8%

Unknown 11.3%
 
LOL, got to love the stats the CAB guys put out.

You guys actually believe them?

Badlands
 
WORANCH":2798gmsr said:
Your right they do a great job marketing CAB. But if you don't have a quality product your not going to be sucsessful.

It's to bad that everyone does'nt spent as much time promoting their own breed as they do bashing Angus and CAB.


EXACTLY!! It is really easy too sit on here all day complaining about hatchet butts, questionable 1968 cattle pedigrees, Angus cows that are too big, an Angus bull that was a scur carrier, the small size of CAB premiums, that large numbers of Angus sired calves don't grade CAB, CAB is not 100% Angus, Angus cattle that don't produce in the feedlot, Angus borrowed an idea from somebody else, some Angus breeders are chasing low birth wt at the expense of muscling, Angus breeders using the bull of the month club rather than a planned breeding program, Angus breeders are not castrating enough of their bull calves, etc and there is some truth in ALL of that; but most don't follow up with 10 reasons why their breed of choice whether it be: Hereford, Charolais, Simmental, Red Angus, Limousin, Gelbvieh, Pinzgauer, Texas Longhorn, Murray Greys, Piedmontese, Senepols, Beefmasters, Santa Gertrudis, etc. or some concoction they mixed up themselves out of their daddy's Heinz 57 cows SOLVES those problems and delivers more money into the commercial cattleman's pocket. Whether you love them or hate them, Angus and their industry affiliates are preaching to the commercial cattlemen, the seedstock producers, the restauranteers, the retailers, and the beef buying public all at the same time. Somebody else needs too start speaking up for themselves and tell their story or the whole American beef business is going to end up being the story of Black Angus and the seven(or 60) dwarves. I wish people would step up to the table and tell us about THEIR cattle rather than why Angus is so horribly bad.
 
Brandonm2":2lip03j9 said:
WORANCH":2lip03j9 said:
Your right they do a great job marketing CAB. But if you don't have a quality product your not going to be sucsessful.

It's to bad that everyone does'nt spent as much time promoting their own breed as they do bashing Angus and CAB.


EXACTLY!! It is really easy too sit on here all day complaining about hatchet butts, questionable 1968 cattle pedigrees, Angus cows that are too big, an Angus bull that was a scur carrier, the small size of CAB premiums, that large numbers of Angus sired calves don't grade CAB, CAB is not 100% Angus, Angus cattle that don't produce in the feedlot, Angus borrowed an idea from somebody else, some Angus breeders are chasing low birth wt at the expense of muscling, Angus breeders using the bull of the month club rather than a planned breeding program, Angus breeders are not castrating enough of their bull calves, etc and there is some truth in ALL of that; but most don't follow up with 10 reasons why their breed of choice whether it be: Hereford, Charolais, Simmental, Red Angus, Limousin, Gelbvieh, Pinzgauer, Texas Longhorn, Murray Greys, Piedmontese, Senepols, Beefmasters, Santa Gertrudis, etc. or some concoction they mixed up themselves out of their daddy's Heinz 57 cows SOLVES those problems and delivers more money into the commercial cattleman's pocket. Whether you love them or hate them, Angus and their industry affiliates are preaching to the commercial cattlemen, the seedstock producers, the restauranteers, the retailers, and the beef buying public all at the same time. Somebody else needs too start speaking up for themselves and tell their story or the whole American beef business is going to end up being the story of Black Angus and the seven(or 60) dwarves. I wish people would step up to the table and tell us about THEIR cattle rather than why Angus is so horribly bad.

I for one have never said it was bad. I beleive that all anyone is saying is "it ain't all that" as most angus breeder's would like you to beleive and have been brain washed to beleive themselves. If you would just listen to yourself you would know that you are in fact the proof of that.
 
novatech":1dch2kha said:
I for one have never said it was bad. I beleive that all anyone is saying is "it ain't all that" as most angus breeder's would like you to beleive and have been brain washed to beleive themselves. If you would just listen to yourself you would know that you are in fact the proof of that.

I am NOT on here pushing Angus. IF you are telling me that somebody very knowledgable about his breed can assemble a set of Herefords, Charolais, Simmentals, Limousins, Beefmasters, Gerts, Shorthorns, or any other mainstream breed of cattle that will perform in a given environment with specific production goals (whether it be weaning wt, ADG, carcass wt, YG, Feed efficiency, lbs of calves weaned per cow exposed, etc) BETTER than a generic set of Black Angus cows I TOTALLY AGREE!!!.....No argument!! I have no doubt of that at all. Of course the opposite is probably also true. The 2006 Angus herd is NOT the greatest set of cows we will ever see in our lifetimes. I think most of the Angus guys will admist that there are SOME weak sisters out there. There is a lot of room for improvement. All I am saying is that there are SOME posters on here who are constantly throwing stones at Angus (and I am NOT an Angus breeder) that rarely, if ever, say anything positive about the cattle they THINK offer us a better alternative.
 
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