Sugar Creek
Well-known member
Mahoney, I don't think we've had a fight. Some have had a chance to vent a little. To me this is boards at their best. Everyone has probably learned a little and no one seems mad.
Amish Farms
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Mahoney Pursley Ranch
Well-known member
It's just a saying Sugar Creek :roll: Gettin far to technical for me. :lol:Sugar Creek":8nhw9c45 said:
I have just came on this post late. I have some good friends who are Amish. They pay all the same taxes we do except Social Security which they do not collect either. They may pay less income tax because of large families. I have always been treated well by our Amish neighbors. They have built several buildings for us including two houses. They are conscious objectors and have served in the military but in a non combat roles espicially during WWII and Korea. This rumor about them not paying taxes and also looking for "men to bring in new blood" is garbage. Farmguy
madbeancounter1
Well-known member
farmguy... I think what is being implied is that when the Amish move into a new area often families that are not closely related and are from different regions either volunteer or asked by their bishops to go.
This happened several years ago in Northern Indiana when a group moved west. There were others from Illinois and PA that joined them.
As far as recruiting new blood... you are correct... that is a bunch of bunk.
In the early 1990's I helped a college professor that was doing his Doctorate on the Amish in LaGrange Co. Indiana. Several interesting facts came out in the research.
Here are some of the ones that won't cause your face to turn red or embarrass you.
1) the church you attend depends on the district you live in. A district is 6 miles square in LaGrange Co. - if you don't like the church or have a falling out with the Bishop you're kind of stuck unless you move.
2) when asking the Amish about the religious faiths of their children it was quite interesting to note that the options they were given ranged from a) they were too young to join the church, b) that they were Amish, c) that they had left the Amish church but had joined the Mennonite church or another of the Anabaptist traditions, d) that they had joined another Christian church, or e) they were classified as "deciders". - this one got me, the parents were 80 years old and a 50 year old child was classified as a decideder...
3) this general knowledge... the phrase "sowing their wild oats" is one heard frequently among the Amish. There is an age... usually the legal driving age 16 when the kids get to see how the rest of the world lives. They get driver's licenses, grow their hair long, the girls dress "English" (and yes some of them are quite attractive when their hair comes down), they experiment with all sorts of things... your imaginations will run wild here but that's ok... it probably happens. This is known as "sowing wild oats"... A couple of Amish boys I worked with were in this phase of life. One of them had a souped up Chevy Nova SS... thing gleamed like the sun. Between the time I saw Lee leave work on Friday and arrive at work on Monday he had gotten engaged, sold his car, bought a buggy and team of horses, cut his hair bowl style, started growing his beard (synonomous with marriage among the Amish... you don't join the Church or grow a beard until you are) and everyone had to start calling him by his given name Levi. Now Marcus, the other boy, had a whale of a time convincing every that he was getting married because his beard consisted of about 3 stray chin hairs.
Some other time I will post more interesting facts about the Mennonites and Amish
This happened several years ago in Northern Indiana when a group moved west. There were others from Illinois and PA that joined them.
As far as recruiting new blood... you are correct... that is a bunch of bunk.
In the early 1990's I helped a college professor that was doing his Doctorate on the Amish in LaGrange Co. Indiana. Several interesting facts came out in the research.
Here are some of the ones that won't cause your face to turn red or embarrass you.
1) the church you attend depends on the district you live in. A district is 6 miles square in LaGrange Co. - if you don't like the church or have a falling out with the Bishop you're kind of stuck unless you move.
2) when asking the Amish about the religious faiths of their children it was quite interesting to note that the options they were given ranged from a) they were too young to join the church, b) that they were Amish, c) that they had left the Amish church but had joined the Mennonite church or another of the Anabaptist traditions, d) that they had joined another Christian church, or e) they were classified as "deciders". - this one got me, the parents were 80 years old and a 50 year old child was classified as a decideder...
3) this general knowledge... the phrase "sowing their wild oats" is one heard frequently among the Amish. There is an age... usually the legal driving age 16 when the kids get to see how the rest of the world lives. They get driver's licenses, grow their hair long, the girls dress "English" (and yes some of them are quite attractive when their hair comes down), they experiment with all sorts of things... your imaginations will run wild here but that's ok... it probably happens. This is known as "sowing wild oats"... A couple of Amish boys I worked with were in this phase of life. One of them had a souped up Chevy Nova SS... thing gleamed like the sun. Between the time I saw Lee leave work on Friday and arrive at work on Monday he had gotten engaged, sold his car, bought a buggy and team of horses, cut his hair bowl style, started growing his beard (synonomous with marriage among the Amish... you don't join the Church or grow a beard until you are) and everyone had to start calling him by his given name Levi. Now Marcus, the other boy, had a whale of a time convincing every that he was getting married because his beard consisted of about 3 stray chin hairs.
Some other time I will post more interesting facts about the Mennonites and Amish
Medic24
Well-known member
Well now, I too have learned something from this string.........
For some years, and some years ago, when I was first married, we actually lived just outside of Lancaster Penna. my wife being the foreigner that she was, was at first infatuated by the Amish and their seemingly backward ways........but it all changed one afternoon, when we were driving around Intercourse, (yes there is really a place with that name) next to Blue Ball (s) as we stopped at an intersection a young Amish boy threw up his middle finger and flipped a bird at her......I had to laugh, she simply pulled out her camera and did the sinful thing of taking this kid's picture , finger and all.......I often wondered if any money could have been made from that.. we did have it framed, and recieved many comments on it for quite some time, but it unfortunately has been lost to posterity.
Now, having grown up in that same area, (no I have not always been a hillbilly, so there!
) I was able to observe some of the quirks of the Amish as a whole... yes much like others, I have seen them install phones, and electric in the barns, as well as buy new tractor for their neighbors, and then 'borrow' it back regularly. They would also go into partnership to buy vans, trucks or the like, the neighbor keeping it at his place, then driving the Amish around. For that matter, who cares?
We had an Amish neighbor that baked, and canned, she was good at it, but we could not stand to go into the house during the summer months, as she, as well as the entire house reeked of B.O. plenty! Pheew!
Some of my first sexual experiences was with Amish girls that were of the age to be a part of the 'world' for a while. Quite interesting. Although it seems that many were very pretty at younger ages, something, and i certainly don't know what happened to them at about 20-25 yrs of age, but it's an overnight transformation to the matronly very plain look (often just plain ol ugly!), perhaps they get beaten with the "ugly stick" at a ceratin age?.
During that time that we lived there, a rare occurance took place. And Amish family was split apart by social services, alledgedly due to the fact that dad and the older brothers were 'helping' them selves to the younger girls in the same family....(yuck-oo!) dad was actually caught in a bath tub with his adolecent daughter soaping things up! Personally, Thought to just leave em alone, they likely needed the bath badly, as well as the fact that they were also saving hot water by bathing together. At least that would have been my defense anyway. Seems that the other Amish familys in the area were more upset with the girls for squeeling then they were with pop, and the brothers. Something about lost farm production as well as shame brought into the community from outsiders intervention.(aka 'the English')
And lastly, my poor ol sainted mum struck the back of a buggy one evening after rounding a curve, and a large dip in the road......damaged the buggy, everyone else was unhurt.she found out that they too hire lawyers.
Now I assume much like other large Amish communitties, much of the Lancaster Penna. Amish make much of the money via tourist trade.
Dairy is a very large part of the Amish community there, thus, I will sometimes take a load of collected dairy heifers, better cows, etc, to one of the bigger sales up there, getting often 3-4 times as much for the same if sold here.
New Holland Sales stables is a 24/7 operation, receiving, selling and shipping livestock every single day, (no sales Sunday) Cattle sales are at least 3 times per week there. Unseen, and unheard of in this local I currently live in. :cboy:
For some years, and some years ago, when I was first married, we actually lived just outside of Lancaster Penna. my wife being the foreigner that she was, was at first infatuated by the Amish and their seemingly backward ways........but it all changed one afternoon, when we were driving around Intercourse, (yes there is really a place with that name) next to Blue Ball (s) as we stopped at an intersection a young Amish boy threw up his middle finger and flipped a bird at her......I had to laugh, she simply pulled out her camera and did the sinful thing of taking this kid's picture , finger and all.......I often wondered if any money could have been made from that.. we did have it framed, and recieved many comments on it for quite some time, but it unfortunately has been lost to posterity.
Now, having grown up in that same area, (no I have not always been a hillbilly, so there!
) I was able to observe some of the quirks of the Amish as a whole... yes much like others, I have seen them install phones, and electric in the barns, as well as buy new tractor for their neighbors, and then 'borrow' it back regularly. They would also go into partnership to buy vans, trucks or the like, the neighbor keeping it at his place, then driving the Amish around. For that matter, who cares?We had an Amish neighbor that baked, and canned, she was good at it, but we could not stand to go into the house during the summer months, as she, as well as the entire house reeked of B.O. plenty! Pheew!
Some of my first sexual experiences was with Amish girls that were of the age to be a part of the 'world' for a while. Quite interesting. Although it seems that many were very pretty at younger ages, something, and i certainly don't know what happened to them at about 20-25 yrs of age, but it's an overnight transformation to the matronly very plain look (often just plain ol ugly!), perhaps they get beaten with the "ugly stick" at a ceratin age?.
During that time that we lived there, a rare occurance took place. And Amish family was split apart by social services, alledgedly due to the fact that dad and the older brothers were 'helping' them selves to the younger girls in the same family....(yuck-oo!) dad was actually caught in a bath tub with his adolecent daughter soaping things up! Personally, Thought to just leave em alone, they likely needed the bath badly, as well as the fact that they were also saving hot water by bathing together. At least that would have been my defense anyway. Seems that the other Amish familys in the area were more upset with the girls for squeeling then they were with pop, and the brothers. Something about lost farm production as well as shame brought into the community from outsiders intervention.(aka 'the English')
And lastly, my poor ol sainted mum struck the back of a buggy one evening after rounding a curve, and a large dip in the road......damaged the buggy, everyone else was unhurt.she found out that they too hire lawyers.
Now I assume much like other large Amish communitties, much of the Lancaster Penna. Amish make much of the money via tourist trade.
Dairy is a very large part of the Amish community there, thus, I will sometimes take a load of collected dairy heifers, better cows, etc, to one of the bigger sales up there, getting often 3-4 times as much for the same if sold here.
New Holland Sales stables is a 24/7 operation, receiving, selling and shipping livestock every single day, (no sales Sunday) Cattle sales are at least 3 times per week there. Unseen, and unheard of in this local I currently live in. :cboy:
preston39
Well-known member
===========farmguy":cwj8s3lz said:
farmguy,
I totally agree with you. I think many are envious because a vast majority of them are great achievers.They are hard workers and are trusthworthy. Much like many new arrivals in our great country..they will take on the ...difficult/unusual tasks and with little or no hi-tech means and turn it into a success story.To some they have odd principles and ways of living.
The comment about them not paying taxes...is plain bovine residue. When I read that by Crowderfarms...I knew it wasn't true. But,I verified it with the CPA/Taxwoman and it is not true. There is NO exemption for the Amish or menninites from paying taxes.
Many of us should be so lucky to be existing in such enviroment. Also an added benefit would be that we wouldn't have to see such degrading commentary about another human being/group. Because i seriously doubt they would even utter it.
Salicylic
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preston39":1dm3gk12 said:
Wrong again, mon amie, self-employed Amish are exempt from Social Security taxes.
"Do the Amish pay taxes?"
"Self-employed Amish do not pay Social Security tax. Those employed by non-Amish employers do pay Social Security tax. The Amish do pay real estate, state and federal income taxes, county taxes, sales tax, etc.
The Amish do not collect Social Security benefits, nor would they collect unemployment or welfare funds. Self sufficiency is the Amish community's answer to government aid programs. Section 310 of the Medicare section of the Social Security act has a sub-section that permits individuals to apply for exemption from the self-employment tax if he is a member of a religious body that is conscientiously opposed to social security benefits but that makes reasonable provision of taking care of their own elderly or dependent members. The Amish have a long history of taking care of their own members. They do not have retirement communities or nursing homes; in most cases, each family takes care of their own, and the Amish community gives assistance as needed."
madbeancounter1
Well-known member
As long as we're telling stories. I'll add a couple of more.
My mom tells the story of visiting one of her Amish cousins homes on a Sunday afternoon. Sunday services had been at their home and the Bishop had stayed just a little too long for everyone's comfort.
Her cousin "Fritz" had taken the courting buggy out for a ride with his flame and it was about time for him to be coming home.
Mom says that the Bishop was talking about all the trouble that the older boys were getting into and that he was surely thankful that at least one boy had chosen to shun the outside world. And her Aunt & Uncle were just a little proud of their boy, nodding their heads and smiling.
Just at that moment Fritz came rolling into the barnyard with a transistor radio that he had mounted under the seat playing the local pop station at full volume. The smiles changed to beet red in a heartbeat and the Bishop was on his feet and out the door before anyone knew what was going on.
Mom says the Bishop grabbed a pitchfork and chased Fritz out of the buggy, grabbed the Transistor and proceeded to jump on it until it was unrecognizable.
OK... so you had to be there for it to be funny.... :lol:
Story 2. The Kansas people tell a story about a Bishop there who had a new family move into his district from back east. They brought with them the parts to erect a windmill. Now the Bishop knew nothing about windmills and enquired of some of his relative in the midwest about them.
When the answer came back he decided that they were a creature comfort that was unnecessary. If God had meant for man to have a machine pump water for him he wouldn't have given him two arms, two legs, and a strong back. If people wanted water they could do what he did... pump it.
This lasted about 6 months. It seems that the old Bishop hurt himself somehow and was having a really hard time pumping his water. All of a sudden it was ok to have a windmill.
Just goes to show there are hypocrits everywhere.
My mom tells the story of visiting one of her Amish cousins homes on a Sunday afternoon. Sunday services had been at their home and the Bishop had stayed just a little too long for everyone's comfort.
Her cousin "Fritz" had taken the courting buggy out for a ride with his flame and it was about time for him to be coming home.
Mom says that the Bishop was talking about all the trouble that the older boys were getting into and that he was surely thankful that at least one boy had chosen to shun the outside world. And her Aunt & Uncle were just a little proud of their boy, nodding their heads and smiling.
Just at that moment Fritz came rolling into the barnyard with a transistor radio that he had mounted under the seat playing the local pop station at full volume. The smiles changed to beet red in a heartbeat and the Bishop was on his feet and out the door before anyone knew what was going on.
Mom says the Bishop grabbed a pitchfork and chased Fritz out of the buggy, grabbed the Transistor and proceeded to jump on it until it was unrecognizable.
OK... so you had to be there for it to be funny.... :lol:
Story 2. The Kansas people tell a story about a Bishop there who had a new family move into his district from back east. They brought with them the parts to erect a windmill. Now the Bishop knew nothing about windmills and enquired of some of his relative in the midwest about them.
When the answer came back he decided that they were a creature comfort that was unnecessary. If God had meant for man to have a machine pump water for him he wouldn't have given him two arms, two legs, and a strong back. If people wanted water they could do what he did... pump it.
This lasted about 6 months. It seems that the old Bishop hurt himself somehow and was having a really hard time pumping his water. All of a sudden it was ok to have a windmill.
Just goes to show there are hypocrits everywhere.
madbeancounter1
Well-known member
don't know never counted and never had a typing lesson.
Mom started me on Piano lessons when I was 7 and sat beside me on the bench for 30 minutes everyday until she was satisfied I wouldn't get up and run away. Guess she did a pretty good job because I took lessons through my Freshman year at college. Had to quit because my prof told me that unless I started using the piannisimo pedal she was going to lower my grade. I was too ashamed to tell her that I couldn't hear what I was playing unless it was loud. That's the long answer
The short answer is .... don't know... my fingers do my talking and they ain't sayin'.
Mom started me on Piano lessons when I was 7 and sat beside me on the bench for 30 minutes everyday until she was satisfied I wouldn't get up and run away. Guess she did a pretty good job because I took lessons through my Freshman year at college. Had to quit because my prof told me that unless I started using the piannisimo pedal she was going to lower my grade. I was too ashamed to tell her that I couldn't hear what I was playing unless it was loud. That's the long answer
The short answer is .... don't know... my fingers do my talking and they ain't sayin'.
Crowderfarms
Well-known member
Preston, Let's get one thing straight right quick. I don't envy anyone, with the exception of some Family members and Mentors.I sure don't envy anyone living in the Stone Age.Without the rest of the world, they shun, they woud'nt even exist as that is where a large chunk of their income comes from. I may not have knowledge of different sects, or groups of them, but the one's about 40 miles from here, have "Stuck" it to a bunch of people. No, that does not Stereotype all of them.Muratic":3ungoo9w said:
eric
Well-known member
You know, it wouldnt bother me either to pay my share of income tax if 99% of my income came from cash sales! ;-)
Something tells me that most of those fruit sales and building sales funds just go right into the big coffee can in the ground, rather than into a bank where it could be kept track of. To a self employed individual, cash sales are like hitting the lottery.
Unless, of course, you're like me and are too scared (or too stupid) to not report every bit of income that comes through here.
As far as property taxes, if they are living in plain jane houses, and no doubt receiving an ag exemption on their land, then they are paying very little in property taxes. Are they paying school taxes, which is the biggest bulk of your property tax? Dont use the school system? Neither does the childless couple who lives 2 doors down from me, but they still have to pay the school tax.
Something tells me that most of those fruit sales and building sales funds just go right into the big coffee can in the ground, rather than into a bank where it could be kept track of. To a self employed individual, cash sales are like hitting the lottery.
Unless, of course, you're like me and are too scared (or too stupid) to not report every bit of income that comes through here.
As far as property taxes, if they are living in plain jane houses, and no doubt receiving an ag exemption on their land, then they are paying very little in property taxes. Are they paying school taxes, which is the biggest bulk of your property tax? Dont use the school system? Neither does the childless couple who lives 2 doors down from me, but they still have to pay the school tax.
Medic24
Well-known member
Ok, here is another observation..the Amish are human, just like every other person I know of, there are good and bad in all communities.
We had a few Amish boys make a habit of driving the buggies into town for some time, they were often set up with radios, and would give the little 'english' girls rides around town and into the countryside,,,,,, it was often told there was a price to be paid for a ride ;-) :cboy:
We had a few Amish boys make a habit of driving the buggies into town for some time, they were often set up with radios, and would give the little 'english' girls rides around town and into the countryside,,,,,, it was often told there was a price to be paid for a ride ;-) :cboy:
Medic24
Well-known member
Oh and one more thing...had I know that they were looking to add some new blood, aka hybridizing, aka heterosis,adding some 'english blood',,I would have likely tried to 'tag' a few whilst I was a younger, single man......I didn't know I could have been doing a good thing until now. :cboy:
:cboy:
Medic24":t71gcmeb said:Oh and one more thing...had I know that they were looking to add some new blood, aka hybridizing, aka heterosis,adding some 'english blood',,I would have likely tried to 'tag' a few whilst I was a younger, single man......I didn't know I could have been doing a good thing until now.
Would that have been breeding up or down for them?
SPRINGER FARMS MURRAY GRE
Well-known member
Terry, thank you for the dissertation,it was both informative and enlightening.... ;-) . I have always admired the amish/mennonites for there work ethic and faith (even though I do not agree with them).
. I have always admired the amish/mennonites for there work ethic and faith (even though I do not agree with them).Medic24
Well-known member
Well, Wewild, would assume anything would be better then INBREEDING!...lol :roll: :roll: :cboy:
