American Aberdeen Angus

[Hpacres440p]

Aberdeen Angus - well.....think about this. American Angus Assn (AAA) - cattle were originally Aberdeen Angus cattle. The Lowline decided to change their name to Aberdeen Angus (Aberdeen Angus Assn - AAA). Funny how that works out.

The ORIGINAL Lowline was developed in NZ (or Australia??). It was an experiment to see if LARGE cattle or SMALL cattle were more efficient. They bred the biggest to the biggest, smallest to the smallest - Lowlines and Highlines. At the end of the experiment, they decided neither were better - average size was best. The experiment station told the workers to ship the Lowlines. The workers didn't. One of them decided he would start a new breed - the Lowlines.

Think about temperament of ALL species of animals - Draft Horse vs Shetland pony - St Bernard vs Chihuahua --- large species are all more docile than minis. The smaller they are the meaner they have to be to survive.

If you buyers can't handle a half of beef - sell them a 1/4. Why in the world would you want to spend time raising something that is going to give you half of a regular one?? You have to breed each one - you have to calve each one - you have to vaccinate each one - and they will give you HALF of a regular one. Makes no sense to me.

You get fewer variety of cuts in 1/4, and those you do get are larger (3 vs 5 lb roast). I have a lot of 2 person households who don't want the larger cuts. A 1/2" ribeye to keep it under 16 oz isn't as pleasurable to eat as a 1" 10- 12 oz one, in their opinion (mine too). Also, if your facilities and land available are less than the amount needed for a good number of 1600 lb cows, these 900-1000 lb girls still raise a good butcherable calf.
Different breeds fit different needs. The "mini" thing is strictly pet, but the Aberdeen production animals do produce well for those with more limited resources.

 

[puzzled in oregon]

The cuts of the meat, like steaks, are smaller in the smaller breeds. That is one of the pluses. Also, you can run a few more smaller animals than larger animals, ...that AUM thing of weight on a pasture.

Plus, some people are just more comfortable around a bit smaller animal.

 

[puzzled in oregon]

My experience with the Aberdeen. They will beef up calves very nicely, on a small scale.
The temperament does need to be taken seriously. Bought a very quiet bull calf. It took one person pulling on the
halter rope and two people pushing on him to load him in the trailer. Used him the following spring with four smaller sized cows.
All four had calves with goofy temperaments.
I would describe the two on my cows as "easily stampeded".
One of the other owners describes their calf as "spunky".
The other owner halter broke their calf, but did not like the calf's temperament.

I have seen before where the disposition can skip a generation. Snorty bull threw quite calves.
But his bull calf who was very quiet would occasionally throw a snorty calf.

If you can walk among someone else's cows and the cows remain quiet, they most likely have a reasonable temperament.
But if all you get is glimpse of their tails as they disappear into the brush, look somewhere else.

The warning signs aren't always that obvious, but they are there and like some said follow your instincts.
Around strangers, my cows would either bunch up ready to fight or stampede through the willow thicket, but they were
fine with me once they were sure it was me.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

I sell 1/4's all the time. They all get almost all the same cuts as the halves. The butcher splits the 1/2 pretty equally. The 2 people getting 1/4's have to agree on how to cut up the animal. I don't sell FRONT quarter and BACK quarter!!!

 

[Double R Ranch]

Aberdeen Angus - well.....think about this. American Angus Assn (AAA) - cattle were originally Aberdeen Angus cattle. The Lowline decided to change their name to Aberdeen Angus (Aberdeen Angus Assn - AAA). Funny how that works out.

The ORIGINAL Lowline was developed in NZ (or Australia??). It was an experiment to see if LARGE cattle or SMALL cattle were more efficient. They bred the biggest to the biggest, smallest to the smallest - Lowlines and Highlines. At the end of the experiment, they decided neither were better - average size was best. The experiment station told the workers to ship the Lowlines. The workers didn't. One of them decided he would start a new breed - the Lowlines.

Think about temperament of ALL species of animals - Draft Horse vs Shetland pony - St Bernard vs Chihuahua --- large species are all more docile than minis. The smaller they are the meaner they have to be to survive.

If you buyers can't handle a half of beef - sell them a 1/4. Why in the world would you want to spend time raising something that is going to give you half of a regular one?? You have to breed each one - you have to calve each one - you have to vaccinate each one - and they will give you HALF of a regular one. Makes no sense to me.

I was surprised when I saw they renamed to AAA and that it was still "separate" from the American Angus Association AAA.
Their claim to fame is docility not meaner. I know what you are saying though. But what I was trying to buy was what the association and breeders claim they are.
I do understand your thinking and have no intention of being lowline only. Having a few allows us to sell to those who can't do a whole cow. We do not sell packaged beef here nor take on the liability of quartering out. We sell live animals only. So we do have a market for it.

 

[puzzled in oregon]

With a smaller animal (say an Aberdeen) whether you take half or whole, you still get all the cuts you want,
in a smaller portion. That appeals to a lot of people, myself included. I am not going to sit down an
eat a 6 lb. steak.

 

[Hpacres440p]

I sell 1/4's all the time. They all get almost all the same cuts as the halves. The butcher splits the 1/2 pretty equally. The 2 people getting 1/4's have to agree on how to cut up the animal. I don't sell FRONT quarter and BACK quarter!!!

I don't either. But when you get 23 ribeyes for a whole, 12 for a half, and 6 for a quarter, and unless you grind everything, a lot of roasts that are better packaged as their whole muscle group, it can get easy to be roast-heavy (especially if trying to balance weight equally) vs steaks. My last full-sized steer we did more extensive cuts from the chucks to maximize alternative steaks, but the roasts still have to go somewhere. We don't do round steaks as they are too tough if someone cooks them wrong.
They aren't intended to feed the world with beef amount per animal. They do serve a great niche of local markets for small households or people who don't have as much space.
I appreciate your fast/huge growth animals. Please acknowledge that the more moderate cattle have a spot to fill also.

 

[puzzled in oregon]

I actually never thought about selling a front quarter or back quarter.. If you had 4 buyers,
they each simply get 25% of all the cuts.

 

[Ebenezer]

If you want small, try an Angus bull like OCC Realist. You will get high fertility and solid function in the females but you can't make them tall even if you put them on a pedestal. I played with that some years back. Three generations later, still small framed. Threw out the rest of that semen since I was educated so well!

 

[RustyTub]

From Oklahoma State Ag

Are your cows too large?

Smaller cows also have been shown to have greater weaning efficiency.

www.farmprogress.com

 

[Dave]

If you figure there is some money in selling them as beef. Why raise them? You can buy them at the sale for a third of the price per pound of good big calves. Don't want to sit in the sale. Find a good honest feeder buyer who is there every week and give him an order. Pay him a few bucks and you will still be money ahead.

 

[Silver]

Aberdeen Angus - well.....think about this. American Angus Assn (AAA) - cattle were originally Aberdeen Angus cattle. The Lowline decided to change their name to Aberdeen Angus (Aberdeen Angus Assn - AAA).

I still think of Aberdeen Angus as the formal name for all angus, red and black. That either shows my age or the fact that I paid attention when my elders spoke when I was a kid.

 

[kenny thomas]

If you figure there is some money in selling them as beef. Why raise them? You can buy them at the sale for a third of the price per pound of good big calves. Don't want to sit in the sale. Find a good honest feeder buyer who is there every week and give him an order. Pay him a few bucks and you will still be money ahead.

You have the best idea so far. They bring about half normal price here but still a good profit if your selling for beef.

 

[Hpacres440p]

If you figure there is some money in selling them as beef. Why raise them? You can buy them at the sale for a third of the price per pound of good big calves. Don't want to sit in the sale. Find a good honest feeder buyer who is there every week and give him an order. Pay him a few bucks and you will still be money ahead.

The only drawback I can see to this is getting consistent product. If I raise them, I know exactly what has gone into them and can select for disposition (more tender/less stressed beef). I've bought some before that I didn't raise, they didn't turn out as well as mine typically do-either schizy-er or not the final dressout that mine give (different sires).
Great idea though.

 

[Double R Ranch]

The only drawback I can see to this is getting consistent product. If I raise them, I know exactly what has gone into them and can select for disposition (more tender/less stressed beef). I've bought some before that I didn't raise, they didn't turn out as well as mine typically do-either schizy-er or not the final dressout that mine give (different sires).
Great idea though.

This is exactly why for us.

 

[blackladies]

Direct market would be the only way low line would work they don't get much at the sale barn. It seems like you do have the market for them and if you're selling the whole animal it makes even more sense. The kill fee is the same regardless of size so if you were selling partials that could be one spot that would cost more than a larger animal. Have one low line cow she is one of the most gentle, butterball fat on grass and a good momma.

 

[Double R Ranch]

I went to look at some Aberdeens for sale the other day. Nice cattle. Was refreshing to see what the claim to fame is with this herd as far as temperament. The breeder states all their cattle's feet are trimmed every 2 years because they are on irrigated pastures and they don't wear their feet down on irrigated. They are on some decent hills with some flat areas. I am not sure I buy that reasoning as I've worked other ranches cattle many times who are all on irrigated and while they are standard Angus they don't have foot growth issues. We cull for feet issues on our ranch but don't have irrigated so can't say I have experience with that other than the ranches I've helped on. I pay attention as best as possible to genetics in the feet department when it comes to our cattle. Many years ago we got semen from a bull that threw really bad feet. Spent years getting them out of the herd while having to trim feet at least yearly on many of them. Lots of broken off toes causing limping.
Another observation I've seen in both the herds I've looked at personally is udders. Not great udders on a good number of cows. To be fair some were much older cows so that can be expected. One bred heifer we have already purchased doesn't have the best developing udder. Very large extra teats from behind, large sagging udder that's not even close to full yet.
When the breeder said her prices are average for the breed when we spoke on the phone I mistakenly didn't ask what those were for replacement heifers and bred heifers. Went to see them and really liked some of them. Wanted to purchase 2 more until she told me the prices. I was taken a bit because I am not seeing those prices until now. $3500 for a bred heifer and $3500 for a bred cow (second calf). I have not seen those prices nor spoken with other breeders in other states who had those prices on un-shown cattle. The breeder claims they get those prices all day long when they have them to sell. Maybe from people who don't know what prices are on them or?
I didn't buy them on the spot. Came home to think it over. Been going back and forth on buying them or not. Thought maybe y'all might have a opinion that could help. I don't see a way to get those prices in our area to recoup costs in a reasonable amount of time. If the cow produces multiple calves maybe then she'd pay for herself but we all know how banking on that can be. Since we haven't had any calves to sell yet I can't know what I can actually get for them. Average prices I've seen is $1500-$2000 for pure bred registered bred heifers from non shown breeders.
Anyone care to give their take on this? Have a little time to make a decision as she says the calls won't be rolling in for another month or two from repeat buyers. Would really like to add a few more to the herd before calling it a good trial herd. Really would like some different genetics from the first group.
Thoughts?

 

[Hpacres440p]

I went to look at some Aberdeens for sale the other day. Nice cattle. Was refreshing to see what the claim to fame is with this herd as far as temperament. The breeder states all their cattle's feet are trimmed every 2 years because they are on irrigated pastures and they don't wear their feet down on irrigated. They are on some decent hills with some flat areas. I am not sure I buy that reasoning as I've worked other ranches cattle many times who are all on irrigated and while they are standard Angus they don't have foot growth issues. We cull for feet issues on our ranch but don't have irrigated so can't say I have experience with that other than the ranches I've helped on. I pay attention as best as possible to genetics in the feet department when it comes to our cattle. Many years ago we got semen from a bull that threw really bad feet. Spent years getting them out of the herd while having to trim feet at least yearly on many of them. Lots of broken off toes causing limping.
Another observation I've seen in both the herds I've looked at personally is udders. Not great udders on a good number of cows. To be fair some were much older cows so that can be expected. One bred heifer we have already purchased doesn't have the best developing udder. Very large extra teats from behind, large sagging udder that's not even close to full yet.
When the breeder said her prices are average for the breed when we spoke on the phone I mistakenly didn't ask what those were for replacement heifers and bred heifers. Went to see them and really liked some of them. Wanted to purchase 2 more until she told me the prices. I was taken a bit because I am not seeing those prices until now. $3500 for a bred heifer and $3500 for a bred cow (second calf). I have not seen those prices nor spoken with other breeders in other states who had those prices on un-shown cattle. The breeder claims they get those prices all day long when they have them to sell. Maybe from people who don't know what prices are on them or?
I didn't buy them on the spot. Came home to think it over. Been going back and forth on buying them or not. Thought maybe y'all might have a opinion that could help. I don't see a way to get those prices in our area to recoup costs in a reasonable amount of time. If the cow produces multiple calves maybe then she'd pay for herself but we all know how banking on that can be. Since we haven't had any calves to sell yet I can't know what I can actually get for them. Average prices I've seen is $1500-$2000 for pure bred registered bred heifers from non shown breeders.
Anyone care to give their take on this? Have a little time to make a decision as she says the calls won't be rolling in for another month or two from repeat buyers. Would really like to add a few more to the herd before calling it a good trial herd. Really would like some different genetics from the first group.
Thoughts?

Price depends on if it is a "reputation" breeder with a lot of name recognition or smaller breeder. $1500-2000 is typical for registered breds here in central Texas. You probably won't make back that 3500 purchase price any time soon, especially if you're going for commercial beef production. My opinion.

 

[Double R Ranch]

Price depends on if it is a "reputation" breeder with a lot of name recognition or smaller breeder. $1500-2000 is typical for registered breds here in central Texas. You probably won't make back that 3500 purchase price any time soon, especially if you're going for commercial beef production. My opinion.

Thank you for the info/advice. This is a small breeder. Retirement herd. Did bring in some bigger money (well they paid it at least) animals to build their herd many years ago but I can't really confirm if it's from a smaller breeder or not that they came from. I can't fathom getting those kind of prices for weanling steers and they claim they are getting them.
I think part of my current "problem" is I am going to be shipping feeders (standard commercial Angus) in a few weeks and we never thought we would get what the market is showing. Maybe it's just burning a hole in my pocket even considering those prices. Just seems like a bad investment especially considering the feet and udders.

 

[Travlr]

I went to look at some Aberdeens for sale the other day.
When the breeder said her prices are average for the breed when we spoke on the phone I mistakenly didn't ask what those were for replacement heifers and bred heifers. Went to see them and really liked some of them. Wanted to purchase 2 more until she told me the prices. I was taken a bit because I am not seeing those prices until now. $3500 for a bred heifer and $3500 for a bred cow (second calf). I have not seen those prices nor spoken with other breeders in other states who had those prices on un-shown cattle. The breeder claims they get those prices all day long when they have them to sell. Maybe from people who don't know what prices are on them or?
I didn't buy them on the spot. Came home to think it over. Been going back and forth on buying them or not.
Thoughts?

My thoughts are that you are being cautious and learning... and how can that be a bad thing? Are you in a hurry?

A long time ago when I was in college we had a lot of discussion about traits and how heritable they are. I remember docility being discussed specifically, being one of the traits that was highly heritable. I'd be very inclined to pass on any animals that have bad udders, extra teats, or bad feet... as those will be in your herd forever even if you breed your animals to improve them. Maybe others with more current information can weigh in about heritability on udders and feet. I always kept a "core herd" which is what I intentionally used to breed for replacements, male or female, and usually artificial insemination followed by a bull. The core herd changed but not as frequently as the disposable cows. I knew if a cow was going to the core herd when she was bought, but if she didn't perform she'd be ousted from that status and moved into the general population. Starting out it's important to build your core herd as it becomes possible with your best animals. They are the ones that produce good feet, udders, breed on time, and raise good, heavy calves of a consistent type. And with careful selection they will provide superior replacements. Don't buy crap expecting it to become something. The only time to buy crap is if you make money just by buying it and have a plan in place to unload them.