Alright Hobby Boys

[Caustic Burno]

Caustic wrote: Mine was 392.00 a cow this year fuel and Rita skewed it up 25-30 bucks a head.

Caustic, what about us hobby people that get all their tax money back from the full time job, (tax write off from farm) ???does that count.
That is one of the biggest parts of my income from my small herd.

and 1 ???? just what determines if you are a hobby farmer. I don't look at it as a hobby and I own less than 50 head. I am a purchasing manager by trade and spend millions each year and I approach my cattle business the same as I would with any type of operation. I have researched and asked questions and will keep asking and learn more each day. A person can lose at this in a big way or a small amount. The one thing I see is the man that has to depend on the farm for his sole source of income has to be better at managing the dollars than the little guy (hobby farmer) I know if all I accomplish is to break even, the enjoyment I get from it is more than worth it. I work a 40 hour week in the office and when I get home I usually am out tending to cows or facilities until 7:30 each night and from sun up to sun down on the weekend. I am never to tired to work on my small (hobby) farm and when it's not fun anymore I will give it up.

just my 2 cents worth[/quote]

You didn't get your money back you had to spend a pile to get some of your tax money back. Correct me if I am wrong AZ you get back about a quarter for every dollar yo spend.

Size of your herd has nothing to do with the size Cattleman you are. I have known some dang fine cattlemen that didn't own a cow.

 

[mitchwi]

Caustic, what about us hobby people that get all their tax money back from the full time job, (tax write off from farm) ???does that count.
That is one of the biggest parts of my income from my small herd.

You didn't get your money back you had to spend a pile to get some of your tax money back. Correct me if I am wrong AZ you get back about a quarter for every dollar yo spend.

Not AZ, but I'll say it again....

I would rather make a dollar and pay taxes of 25 cents, rather than spend a dollar and in C Hollands case get back 25 cents of his own money.

C Holland - first of all if you are a "hobby" farmer then you should not be filing a farm return. a "hobby" is a "hobby" not a business. - second, your losses from your hobby giving you a "big" return, is still only your own $ through withholdings... you may be paying less effective tax, but go back and read my first point if you think that is a good thing.......

 

[Central Fl Cracker]

Caustic
I was really looking forward to get in the hobby cow biz, but after reading all these post I am beginning to doudt myself. it seems to me nobody is making much money in the cattle biz because they do no what it really cost. My wife is so tender hearter that she said she can't eat bessie so I told her when we ship cattle they are going to a pet zoo. :lol: I am not stupid enough to think I am going to quit my day job but i do want the cattle biz to make money. My motives are a little different than most I am making the move to my wife's property which is 150 ac. which is already fenced to be next to her mother since she is 81 and slowly going blind and she needs someone to take care of her eventoually (sp). i also want my 14 year old twin boys to get out of the city(Orlando) due to drugs, gangs etc. and enjoy a better life than I have had. I am currently a V.P. of a construction company that will do 300 million worth of work this year and so yes maybe I need a tax right off. What people do not understand if I write off $ 30,000 off as a true loss in the cattle biz considering a 30% tax bracket write off I still lost $21,000 in real dollars. 2 years ago I went into the offshore charter biz with profits in mind but I blew 2ea. 3208's diesel engines the second year and lost my butt. Needless to say I am selling my boat ( 37' Bertram ) and getting out of the offshore charter biz. I want to run my cattle biz like a biz and really do not want to lose money to offset my regular income. Keep in mind that acres around Orlando have gone up substantailly but this is a family parcel that we will not sell forever. Just my thoughts and this has been a great thread for info.
Thanks Causto

P.S.
I have already found a mentor onsite that has help me a lot. Hint he is from florida and hates horses and puts up with yankees.
P.S.S how do yall do spell check I do not see an icon for this.

 

[MikeC]

The only real way to make the tax thing work is to incorporate one or more "Money Making" businesses in with the cattle deal. The tax that would have been paid by the one that actually had a profit would be countered by the cattle operation. The down side is one day there will be a profit, if done correctly.

After all, I would rather have a new tractor than to give the money to the IRS anyday. The depreciation would be welcomed by the Inc.

Disclaimer: Please consult with a Tax Advisor who is knowledgeable in these matters. ;-)

 

[tom4018]

Well I will throw my numbers in here for what they are worth. For the past 4 years our average cost per calf sold was $423 with an average sell price of $556. The spreadsheet I set up tracks by the head sold, so my costs are a little high because we retained some heifers. Costs include utilities, fuel, fertilizer, vet, fencing, and any thing related to the farm.

I know my costs are higher but this old farm was neglected for a long time and we have spent a lot on fertilizer and lime trying to gradually build it back up. Been doing it for more than 4 years but the others were for my mother, so really don't have those numbers.

Don't consider it a hobby, just another job. And at least I enjoy this one.

 

[Caustic Burno]

Well I will throw my numbers in here for what they are worth. For the past 4 years our average cost per calf sold was $423 with an average sell price of $556. The spreadsheet I set up tracks by the head sold, so my costs are a little high because we retained some heifers. Costs include utilities, fuel, fertilizer, vet, fencing, and any thing related to the farm.

I know my costs are higher but this old farm was neglected for a long time and we have spent a lot on fertilizer and lime trying to gradually build it back up. Been doing it for more than 4 years but the others were for my mother, so really don't have those numbers.

Don't consider it a hobby, just another job. And at least I enjoy this one.

Tom the main thing is your truthful and treating it like a business and tracking the true cost of a cow/calf operation.
A lot of the wantabees are funding the farm from another source fine if you want a hobby. A true cattleman knows to the penny what those girls are costing him. Looking at your numbers you are at the national average of a 100 bucks a head profit. It is all about controling front end cost and loss management. Bez had about the best definition of how to run an operation in a profitable manner.

 

[aplusmnt]

Caustic wrote: Mine was 392.00 a cow this year fuel and Rita skewed it up 25-30 bucks a head.

Caustic, what about us hobby people that get all their tax money back from the full time job, (tax write off from farm) ???does that count.
That is one of the biggest parts of my income from my small herd.

and 1 ???? just what determines if you are a hobby farmer. I don't look at it as a hobby and I own less than 50 head. I am a purchasing manager by trade and spend millions each year and I approach my cattle business the same as I would with any type of operation. I have researched and asked questions and will keep asking and learn more each day. A person can lose at this in a big way or a small amount. The one thing I see is the man that has to depend on the farm for his sole source of income has to be better at managing the dollars than the little guy (hobby farmer) I know if all I accomplish is to break even, the enjoyment I get from it is more than worth it. I work a 40 hour week in the office and when I get home I usually am out tending to cows or facilities until 7:30 each night and from sun up to sun down on the weekend. I am never to tired to work on my small (hobby) farm and when it's not fun anymore I will give it up.

just my 2 cents worth

You didn't get your money back you had to spend a pile to get some of your tax money back. Correct me if I am wrong AZ you get back about a quarter for every dollar yo spend.

Size of your herd has nothing to do with the size Cattleman you are. I have known some dang fine cattlemen that didn't own a cow.[/quote]

I might be wrong here but what I think Holland was meaning, is if you pay less taxes either in less property tax (ag excempt) or tax money sent to the IRS than what you normally would have if not having the cattle. Would that not work into adding to the bottom line in a way on the cattle.

Say Hypothetically you pay 10,000.00 in taxes and 2,000.00 in property taxes, but to ag exceptions that goes down to 7,000.00 and 800.00. That savings added to the calf crop sales could make it profitable for the Hobby/Part-time guys to bring their net family income up due to having the farm.

Ok not sure all that made since, and I do not know, next year is my planned year to start treating the cattle as a business. Realized from another post that that saleing the few calves we do as a hobby could lead to IRS problems so I will be converting over to hopefully a Part-Time cattle business instead of a Hobby for my kids show calves.

 

[Caustic Burno]

Ok you spend 30,000 dollars on a tractor you get to write off 6000 dollars on income tax by my way of figuring he is 24,000 dollars in the hole with that kind of math the firat year to save 700 bucks in taxes. If the tractor wasn't needed he is 5,300 dollars in the hole the first year.

 

[backhoeboogie]

Last year was an excellent year, outside of my hobby.

Aplusmnt is right on target for me. If I lost $1,000 on cattle, in last year's drought, but saved ten times that in property taxes, my bottom line is better because of my "Hobby".

Between my jobs and "hobbies" I don't see much daylight here at the house. If we don't go 8 months without rain this year, I'll make money farming, and that is not just on cattle. I'll average 20 hours a week farming part time, enjoying this hobby of mine.

It is a good hobby and it saves a few nickels at the end of the year, even on a really bad year, and makes a few nickels other years. I am really sorry it offends folks that I put in 20 hours a week on a farm.

 

[Caustic Burno]

well mr burno wants it down to brass tacks.i spend less than $100 a cow on everything.feed hay minerals.as well as fuel an repairs.now i have no idea what the reg cows will cost.when i start that.

 

[Bez!]

well mr burno wants it down to brass tacks.i spend less than $100 a cow on everything.feed hay minerals.as well as fuel an repairs.now i have no idea what the reg cows will cost.when i start that.

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d10/j ... bsflag.gif

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

CB - you are gonna' get someone p.o.'d at you - just when I figured you to be growing some manners and walking through a new gate.

Bez!

 

[Anonymous]

$1.28 per day average. Taxes, feed, fuel, fenceing, repairs, equipment, labor, registrations, vet, vac., wormer, and ect. got tired of writing everything down. :lol:

 

[Caustic Burno]

Last year was an excellent year, outside of my hobby.

Aplusmnt is right on target for me. If I lost $1,000 on cattle, in last year's drought, but saved ten times that in property taxes, my bottom line is better because of my "Hobby".

Between my jobs and "hobbies" I don't see much daylight here at the house. If we don't go 8 months without rain this year, I'll make money farming, and that is not just on cattle. I'll average 20 hours a week farming part time, enjoying this hobby of mine.

It is a good hobby and it saves a few nickels at the end of the year, even on a really bad year, and makes a few nickels other years. I am really sorry it offends folks that I put in 20 hours a week on a farm.

You will go broke spending money to save taxes. Your not getting it you had to spend income on an item that is deductable and you are not getting all that dollar back, you are getting about 25 cents back as income tax. So you have reduced your spendable hosehold income by 75 bucks on the 100

 

[Caustic Burno]

well mr burno wants it down to brass tacks.i spend less than $100 a cow on everything.feed hay minerals.as well as fuel an repairs.now i have no idea what the reg cows will cost.when i start that.

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d10/j ... bsflag.gif

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

CB - you are gonna' get someone p.o.'d at you - just when I figured you to be growing some manners and walking through a new gate.

Bez!

And you believe a 100 bucks a head ;-)

 

[Bez!]

well mr burno wants it down to brass tacks.i spend less than $100 a cow on everything.feed hay minerals.as well as fuel an repairs.now i have no idea what the reg cows will cost.when i start that.

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d10/j ... bsflag.gif

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

CB - you are gonna' get someone p.o.'d at you - just when I figured you to be growing some manners and walking through a new gate.

Bez!

And you believe a 100 bucks a head ;-)

Yup, any good cattleman knows his numbers - this guy has told it like it is. He says he can do it and I have to believe him.

I am simply waiting for the method he uses - I am ready and willing to learn because I WANT to lower my costs.

Bez! is ready for school and I have my own Big Chief notebook out and my Cowboy tin lunch box open. I like a snack when I am in class.

Bez!

 

[backhoeboogie]

Last year was an excellent year, outside of my hobby.

Aplusmnt is right on target for me. If I lost $1,000 on cattle, in last year's drought, but saved ten times that in property taxes, my bottom line is better because of my "Hobby".

Between my jobs and "hobbies" I don't see much daylight here at the house. If we don't go 8 months without rain this year, I'll make money farming, and that is not just on cattle. I'll average 20 hours a week farming part time, enjoying this hobby of mine.

It is a good hobby and it saves a few nickels at the end of the year, even on a really bad year, and makes a few nickels other years. I am really sorry it offends folks that I put in 20 hours a week on a farm.

You will go broke spending money to save taxes.

Caustic, Property taxes. I'm not talking spending $30K to save $10K. If I break even on cattle, my property tax savings on the ag exemption saves a lot of nickels. If I make $20K on a good year farming, I'd pay taxes on the profit but I still pay far less in property taxes, which adds more to my bank account.

You'd have to know this county. I bought an 8 acre piece of property for $9,200 in 1994, that is close to my house. In 2003 the appraisal on that piece of property on a dirt road with no fences was $45,000. I fought the appraisal district and lost so I sold it for half the appraisal value. Mind you I had not changed anything there except for removing some of the brush on the back of it. I put a deer stand on it. Nothing else. No buildings before or after.

They want to appraise the property where my cows are for $13K an acre. It is on a country road out side the city limits, no amenities whatsoever. Without the ag exemption, I would go broke just like you are saying.

My land in Harrison country is about 1/20 the cost in property taxes.

No matter how you do the math, I can afford to lose money on cattle and at the end of the year I will have more hard cash in my pocket. This hard cash in my pocket I speak of has nothing to do with income tax. Now if I make money on cows, I pay more in income tax, but I still save a great deal on property tax.

I'm not going to sit here trying to pull your leg and tell you I am a very prudent cattle manager. If if was just about cattle, I would indeed have a few. For me personally it is about keeping an ag exemption on farm property that developers would love to make into a housing development.

If my cows are hungry, they're going to get fed, even if it means losing money during a really bad drought. I culled some and that was a good thing, but I spent a lot of nickels last year. Bad management was indeed a factor. I sold hay in June to some horse folks that I should not have sold. There were some other factors as well.

 

[Caustic Burno]

well mr burno wants it down to brass tacks.i spend less than $100 a cow on everything.feed hay minerals.as well as fuel an repairs.now i have no idea what the reg cows will cost.when i start that.

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d10/j ... bsflag.gif

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

CB - you are gonna' get someone p.o.'d at you - just when I figured you to be growing some manners and walking through a new gate.

Bez!

And you believe a 100 bucks a head ;-)

Yup, any good cattleman knows his numbers - this guy has told it like it is. He says he can do it and I have to believe him.

I am simply waiting for the method he uses - I am ready and willing to learn because I WANT to lower my costs.

Bez! is ready for school and I have my own Big Chief notebook out and my Cowboy tin lunch box open. I like a snack when I am in class.

Bez!

I would like to see that math also Ok if I sit beside you, I have a Roy Rogers lunch kit.

 

[Bez!]

well mr burno wants it down to brass tacks.i spend less than $100 a cow on everything.feed hay minerals.as well as fuel an repairs.now i have no idea what the reg cows will cost.when i start that.

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d10/j ... bsflag.gif

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

CB - you are gonna' get someone p.o.'d at you - just when I figured you to be growing some manners and walking through a new gate.

Bez!

And you believe a 100 bucks a head ;-)

Yup, any good cattleman knows his numbers - this guy has told it like it is. He says he can do it and I have to believe him.

I am simply waiting for the method he uses - I am ready and willing to learn because I WANT to lower my costs.

Bez! is ready for school and I have my own Big Chief notebook out and my Cowboy tin lunch box open. I like a snack when I am in class.

Bez!

I would like to see that math also Ok if I sit beside you, I have a Roy Rogers lunch kit.

Roy? No kidding - a collectors item.

Mine is a Malborough Cowboy - without the smokes of course. Used to have the Big Indian lunch box but it seems to have disappeared.

Sit beside me and we can swap sandwiches.

I look forward to this lesson.

Bez!

 

[Anonymous]

Bez and Caustic I want in on that class, cause I've been doing something wrong, need to lower my cost.

 

[Caustic Burno]

Well Bez from the lack of posters on this thread must be a lot of hobby boys burning up a calculator and stairing at the numbers like a cow looking at a new gate. I can just see that constipated look when they figure out how much they are losing.