Adding Humate to Herbicides

[Rajela]

GrazonNext® HL herbicide Offers flexible rates (1.2 to 2.1 pints/acre), depending on target weeds.

Goatweed is easy to kill and the horsenettle will probably return.

I always like to lean to the heavy side of the mixing table. Not having a good strong mix can sometimes result in a waste of time and money.

 

[bird dog]

You can get by with a less strong mixture early in the year when the plants are young and tender and growing rapidly. As they age they get tougher so your mixture needs to get stronger. The amount of surf stays the same regardless. If it gets dry and the target weeds stop growing, you need to stop spraying. Usually by this late in July in central Texas, the spray season is over. You can still kill some plants, you just don't get your moneys worth. This year we have had enough rain to keep things going a little longer. In areas that I did not get to this year, I am having a banner year with the weed they call snow on the mountain.

Most of the herbicides work by the plant growing its self to death. That is why the instructions always say something like "the target plant should be actively growing". The best bang for the buck is spraying for weeds in April and May.

Another thing to remember that if you are using a product like Grazon that has a soil residual, it is best to use it early in the year for control throughout the growing season. Using it late in the year won't get this benefit so other products are more economical. If you are spraying this late, I would just use plain old 2 4 D.

 

[greybeard]

Bird dog--that all depends on what plant species one is trying to control. Biggest problems come from differsnt species that begin to grow at different soil temps and different day lengths. Goatweed is a hot weather plant that comes on after my other invasive-Chinese allow. If I wait for the goatweed, I won't be spraying until mid June or (this year--now) , but by then, the Tallow is already several feet in height.

Also, if the species is a woody brush, (or trees like young sweetgum, Chinese Tallow, & Greenbriar) in spite of what specimen labels say, the best result is achieved in early fall, at the end of the growing season. For me, that is late Aug thru Sept and into early Oct. The sap is beginning to move down into the plant's root system to store energy for winter dormancy, and the best results are spraying woody brush during that period, just before the leaves turn colors. Yes, I know that is exactly opposite of what almost all specimen labels state....but,
As a rep from a major herbicide company once privately confided to me-"We aren't really in the business of killing trees, weeds, and brush--we're in the business of selling herbicide, and the more times you have to spray, the more we will sell."

Your Snow on the Mountain is what we call Bishop's Weed around here. Thankfully, it isn't a big problem in my area.

 

[bird dog]

Greybeard
What you said is 100% correct. I was using the phrase general spraying because most people (me included) have a wide variety of weeds and a lot of them are unidentifiable without a expert on hand. It always amazes me what new varieties come up after disking off a pasture. For most folks I think spraying woody plants and brush should be a separate operation from weeds. You usually need a different chemical or a combination of two or more chemicals to get the best result. These are usually more expensive. I agree with you that later in the year for these is best and it seems that the hotter the temperature, the better results you will get.

Snow on the mountain is also a mid to late summer plant but where I sprayed Grazon earlier in the spring. I have none. The soil residual does indeed work. I don't have the time to spray all my property at once so some is sprayed to early, while other parts are sprayed to late. That is why I start with the good stuff with soil residual and finish with the cheaper stuff that doesn't. As you mentioned, brush can be put off until later.

Can goatweed be controlled before it comes up?

 

[greybeard]

Pre-emergent, I suppose it is possible to prevent germination or kill it as soon as it germinates, but in all of Texas, or at least from Red River to Houston, and I-35 to the Sabine, the in-soil seed bank of Goat weed (wolly croton) is humongus. As I'm sure you know, the little cottony balls on top of the plant aren't the actual seed, that is the 'flower'---a little pod develops and the seeds are inside, and each plant produces many hundreds of the tiny things. Probably thousands of seeds per plant.
Extensive tests by TAMU and Fla State revealed that wolly croton seeds were found in every test site in Eastern Texas and much of South Fla, are very long lived (20 years+) and are just 'waiting for the right conditions'. We all saw those conditions in 2011/2012 when goatweed was everywhere in Texas, including places it had never been seen before. Road medians, well manicured lawns, high $$ ranch pastures, everywhere. It was solid along I45 from Houston to Dallas in 2011 and along every highway I traveled in that time period. Many people wrongly concluded the goatweed just came into their area in that period--not so. The seed was always there and still is--just waiting.
It would take a lot of pre-emergent/soil residue herbicide to kill off a seedbank that extensive.

I don't use any pre-emergence herbicides, but I do spray Gazon Next and once used Grazon P&D. I can't see that it did much to keep the goatweed from germinating that year at all. Maybe something with Dicamba would work.

 

[hurleyjd]

Bird dog--that all depends on what plant species one is trying to control. Biggest problems come from differsnt species that begin to grow at different soil temps and different day lengths. Goatweed is a hot weather plant that comes on after my other invasive-Chinese allow. If I wait for the goatweed, I won't be spraying until mid June or (this year--now) , but by then, the Tallow is already several feet in height.

Also, if the species is a woody brush, (or trees like young sweetgum, Chinese Tallow, & Greenbriar) in spite of what specimen labels say, the best result is achieved in early fall, at the end of the growing season. For me, that is late Aug thru Sept and into early Oct. The sap is beginning to move down into the plant's root system to store energy for winter dormancy, and the best results are spraying woody brush during that period, just before the leaves turn colors. Yes, I know that is exactly opposite of what almost all specimen labels state....but,
As a rep from a major herbicide company once privately confided to me-"We aren't really in the business of killing trees, weeds, and brush--we're in the business of selling herbicide, and the more times you have to spray, the more we will sell."

Your Snow on the Mountain is what we call Bishop's Weed around here. Thankfully, it isn't a big problem in my area.

I have wondered about the tallow and thought you might take a shredder and install the device you see on some riding mowers to attach a water hose to it to clean under the deck. Install one of these through the deck and have a tank that is gravity fed to the device that you can turn off and on with a electric activated valve. Shred the tallow apply remedy at the same time. Might work just something to think about.

 

[Klutch]

Our experience here in the Pacific Northwest with humics blended with herbicides is not always good. The humics may stimulate the plant, but quite often they seem to deactivate the herbicides.
A good quality surfactant is really a no brainer with herbicides. The cost should be far less than a dollar (~$0.45) per acre, and the activity enhancement will often be the difference of great performance, or a disappointment. I agree that if you are going to the expense of time, chemistry, equipment and expense of driving over a field, do it right. Detergents are good at reducing surface tension, but they can raise cain in the spray tank with foam, and this is not really their intended function.