a crossbreeding question

[magpie]

what about a 5/8 and 3/8 blend?


that blend "if" i am understanding correctly, is achieved in the 4th generation?

would not the animal that you are selecting for, be more consistant from that 4th generation on??



thanks

magpie

 

[cowspider]

Sure :cboy:

 

[ALACOWMAN]

are you talking about in a herd of the same percentage?

 

[magpie]

yes, i am talking about about a 5/8 and 3/8 cross in a "herd of the same percentage".

(this would have a specific goals in mind, not just random crossings.)

thanks,

magpie

 

[bullred]

Magpie,

Brafords are a good example of this.

CJ

 

[cypressfarms]

Brafords,Brangus,Simbrah,Charbray,etc.etc. etc. are all 5/8's one breed and 3/8's another. Very popular way to get most of what you want in a cow/calf, and some of what you need. That didn't come out right:

Example: A brangus is 5/8's angus - for carcass quality, fertility, color, etc.... and 3/8's brahman for heat tolerability, insect resistance.

By doing this you also get a free ride on the hybrid vigor boat as well.

 

[bullred]

Brafords,Brangus,Simbrah,Charbray,etc.etc. etc. are all 5/8's one breed and 3/8's another.

Looks like a trend here, huh? Seems the conventional wisdom is that 3/8 Brahma is an ideal amount.

CJ

 

[Frankie]

Brafords,Brangus,Simbrah,Charbray,etc.etc. etc. are all 5/8's one breed and 3/8's another. Very popular way to get most of what you want in a cow/calf, and some of what you need. That didn't come out right:

Example: A brangus is 5/8's angus - for carcass quality, fertility, color, etc.... and 3/8's brahman for heat tolerability, insect resistance.

By doing this you also get a free ride on the hybrid vigor boat as well.

Are you saying those breeds are crossbreds and not purebreeds?

 

[magpie]

so, to keep it simple, a 5/8 and a 3/8 split, with proper culling "could be" a good way to go?

(if i understood correctly, the 4th generation and beyond, would then be considered purebred, and not just a cross.)

the brafords, brangus, simbrah, charbray, are all excellent "accepted" examples of this.

--------------------

now... my little pea picking brain wants to know...

....what if... you have two other breeds.... both known for grazing traits,

one that was "superior in adaptibility"...

and crossed it with another breed "known for superior carcass quality"

... blended and culled to this proper 5/8 - 3/8 combination: by selecting for functional efficiency, along with performance recording? (focusing on the beef traits)

(this 5/8 - 3/8 cross would have growth ability, calving ease, and carcass quality) and is "highly adaptable from the gulf coast to montana"

and this breed would be an "totally new outcross to 4/5 of the cattle producing areas of the world"?

what if this was possible? would you consider using this breed "IF you could see that it would help you", in what you were doing as a commercial cattleman?

-------------------------------------

you would still have the "much desired solid black", or even the "solid reds", (for those that like red).

(of course, if you were happy with what you have, then you wouldn't need to use this....)

---------------------------------

would you even "consider this possibility" IF you were looking for something that didn't have "ear"?


or is the old way, the only way?



most respectfully,
magpie

 

[cypressfarms]

Brafords,Brangus,Simbrah,Charbray,etc.etc. etc. are all 5/8's one breed and 3/8's another. Very popular way to get most of what you want in a cow/calf, and some of what you need. That didn't come out right:

Example: A brangus is 5/8's angus - for carcass quality, fertility, color, etc.... and 3/8's brahman for heat tolerability, insect resistance.

By doing this you also get a free ride on the hybrid vigor boat as well.

Are you saying those breeds are crossbreds and not purebreeds?

Frankie, that sounds like a set up. O.k. I'll fall for it:

They are both. They're crossbreds because they originally came from two breeds, and can still be registered if you take the two original breeds and get the required mix. They are purebreds in the sense that the "breed" has been established for some time, but the "breed" is a 5/8's blend of angus, and a 3/8's blend of brahman by definition. Some people talk about having brangus because they get hybrid vigor; well, at what point will brangus by itself be a true breed? If you have an eigth generation brangus, does it have the hybrid vigor that a 1st generation brangus will? I don't think it will, but that's my opinion.

 

[hillbilly]

so, to keep it simple, a 5/8 and a 3/8 split, with proper culling "could be" a good way to go?

(if i understood correctly, the 4th generation and beyond, would then be considered purebred, and not just a cross.)

the brafords, brangus, simbrah, charbray, are all excellent "accepted" examples of this.

--------------------

now... my little pea picking brain wants to know...

....what if... you have two other breeds.... both known for grazing traits,

one that was "superior in adaptibility"...

and crossed it with another breed "known for superior carcass quality"

... blended and culled to this proper 5/8 - 3/8 combination: by selecting for functional efficiency, along with performance recording? (focusing on the beef traits)

(this 5/8 - 3/8 cross would have growth ability, calving ease, and carcass quality) and is "highly adaptable from the gulf coast to montana"

and this breed would be an "totally new outcross to 4/5 of the cattle producing areas of the world"?

what if this was possible? would you consider using this breed "IF you could see that it would help you", in what you were doing as a commercial cattleman?

-------------------------------------

you would still have the "much desired solid black", or even the "solid reds", (for those that like red).

(of course, if you were happy with what you have, then you wouldn't need to use this....)

---------------------------------

would you even "consider this possibility" IF you were looking for something that didn't have "ear"?


or is the old way, the only way?



most respectfully,
magpie

OK, ok...give us the punch line already...
I think I know where this is going and I can tell you they
make good roping steers.

Hillbilly

 

[Frankie]

so, to keep it simple, a 5/8 and a 3/8 split, with proper culling "could be" a good way to go?

(if i understood correctly, the 4th generation and beyond, would then be considered purebred, and not just a cross.)

the brafords, brangus, simbrah, charbray, are all excellent "accepted" examples of this.

--------------------

now... my little pea picking brain wants to know...

....what if... you have two other breeds.... both known for grazing traits,

one that was "superior in adaptibility"...

and crossed it with another breed "known for superior carcass quality"

... blended and culled to this proper 5/8 - 3/8 combination: by selecting for functional efficiency, along with performance recording? (focusing on the beef traits)

(this 5/8 - 3/8 cross would have growth ability, calving ease, and carcass quality) and is "highly adaptable from the gulf coast to montana"

and this breed would be an "totally new outcross to 4/5 of the cattle producing areas of the world"?

what if this was possible? would you consider using this breed "IF you could see that it would help you", in what you were doing as a commercial cattleman?

-------------------------------------

you would still have the "much desired solid black", or even the "solid reds", (for those that like red).

(of course, if you were happy with what you have, then you wouldn't need to use this....)

---------------------------------

would you even "consider this possibility" IF you were looking for something that didn't have "ear"?


or is the old way, the only way?



most respectfully,
magpie

Why would you go to all that trouble? We've already got breeds that perform well on grass, at the feedlots and produce high quality beef. Why spend years re-inventing the wheel?

 

[Brandonm2]

"would you consider using this breed"

No! I know you miss opportunities by not taking risks; but I have a lot of experience with about 12 breeds and have EYEBALLED 20-25 more on a regular basis and have seen or read a little about most of the rest. I am very skeptical of anything "NEW" that was coming down the pike saying they were superior to most of the ~50 breeds and numerous cow families within those 50 breeds. I have more selection NOW than I can possibly be fully knowledgable about, so if some mad scientist cowboy is out there breeding the "NEXT big thing" I will let somebody else take all the risks with them. Once I have been seeing them for about 10 years, I MIGHT have an opinion then.

 

[cypressfarms]

I will let somebody else take all the risks with them. Once I have been seeing them for about 10 years, I MIGHT have an opinion then.

Thems some good words

 

[ALACOWMAN]

so, to keep it simple, a 5/8 and a 3/8 split, with proper culling "could be" a good way to go?

(if i understood correctly, the 4th generation and beyond, would then be considered purebred, and not just a cross.)

the brafords, brangus, simbrah, charbray, are all excellent "accepted" examples of this.

--------------------

now... my little pea picking brain wants to know...

....what if... you have two other breeds.... both known for grazing traits,

one that was "superior in adaptibility"...

and crossed it with another breed "known for superior carcass quality"

... blended and culled to this proper 5/8 - 3/8 combination: by selecting for functional efficiency, along with performance recording? (focusing on the beef traits)

(this 5/8 - 3/8 cross would have growth ability, calving ease, and carcass quality) and is "highly adaptable from the gulf coast to montana"

and this breed would be an "totally new outcross to 4/5 of the cattle producing areas of the world"?

what if this was possible? would you consider using this breed "IF you could see that it would help you", in what you were doing as a commercial cattleman?

-------------------------------------

you would still have the "much desired solid black", or even the "solid reds", (for those that like red).

(of course, if you were happy with what you have, then you wouldn't need to use this....)

---------------------------------

would you even "consider this possibility" IF you were looking for something that didn't have "ear"?


:cboy: whew was all that skiping nessesary the 5/8-3/8 combo is great for the bos indicus x bos tarus but other percentages or better on bos tarus crosses like f1 if you started trying to breed on the gulf coast say a bra/herf f1 work your way to montana breeding the bra percentage out according to there tolerance by the time you get to montana you bra x percentage will be history.
magpie

 

[magpie]

i am not re-inventing the wheel, cause somebody else a lot smarter than i, has already come up with this particular combination. he understood much better than i, what traits, the commercial cattleman was looking for as he was a leader in what he was doing at the time. (he is now deceased.)

this breed was officially established with precise qualifications for foundation of the new breed in 1986, (which is very nearly 20 years, instead of only 10).

you would not use this as a roper because:

1. it also comes polled.

unless you strap on plastic horns,, grins and (once you mate horns to polled, you loose being able to use it as a roper stock, lots easier to breed horn out, than in.)

2. it's body is naturally "not built to be a roper".

(unless of course someone did not do any culling at all, which is not the focus or purpose of this breed.)

yes, numbers are still limited, but that is what frozen semen is for, besides the fact that there are young bulls available.

why hasn't it already caught on?

....it has, in the local areas where this breed is being promoted.

----------------------

because it's so hard to reach other peoples minds, when they have a pre-conceived preceptions, for what they think is acceptable or not.

and by keeping the breeds name out of the discussion, i hoped to get valuable feedback without the bias that the breeds name would bring.

this breed is valuable to use on 1st calf heifers without giving up a quality carcass, helping the cattlemen to control costs, and still add value to each beef.

....just another option that i wanted to bring to light, a viable option that has not gotten much attention lately. and i thought was worth mentioning.

i will disclose the breed, but....

....."just wanted to see if i could stir up any interest",

before i showed all my cards....

many thanks to both your questions and answers on this thread.

respectfully,

magpie

 

[purecountry]

I agree boys, totally. I might do a little pot-stirring within my own herds' genepool, but I'm not gonna go for breed status with the CLRC once I've 'bred true for type'. And I sure as Hell won't leave nuts in 65% of my bull calves - er, steers - just to put on a sale and play Coca-Cola Cowboy.

Here's a hint, there are no snake oil breeds of cattle, horses, dogs, cats OR PEOPLE, for that matter. There are only breeds, composites, or combinations that work FOR YOU AND YOURS. So, go ahead, breed your 4th generation 'purebreds' and peddle 'em to whoever's buyin', and I'll keep breedin' true for profit.

 

[purecountry]

magpie, you're not divulging any information that we don't already know about any other beef breed. Drop the curtain and reveal the 'breed', and I'll give my opinion. You said it's not a roper b/c it doesn't have horns, and it has all these traits and blahblahblah.....well so do Angus and Galloway and Herefords and many other breeds.

What gives?

 

[cypressfarms]

before i showed all my cards....

many thanks to both your questions and answers on this thread.

respectfully,

magpie

Hell, if I wanted to play cards, I'd be watching Texas hold em on ESPN.

What's the deal magpie.....

 

[Arnold Ziffle]

magpie --- did the deceased person of whom you speak just happen to be from South Africa, i.e. Jan Bonsma?