8,000 Canadian Cattle Quarantined!

[I luv herfrds]

skcatlman I've been reading your posts. Yes as cattlemen and women we are all in this together, but BSE was NOT found in this country until an imported cow from Canada was diagnosed. Our feed ban started in 1989. The one cow I heard of that was possibly born in the US was not diagnosed until a couple of years ago.Proper records were not kept to know for sure.
Cripple Creek Packing asked the USDA if they could do a BSE test on EVERY single animal that came through, but since the USDA has been bought and sold by the Big 4 their request was denied. This happened after Japan banned US beef.
Now lets talk about what is happening now. How about those cattle in South Dakota that were found to be illegally imported Canadian cattle? Canadian cattle are suppose to be documented when they are to be shipped to the US, but it seems someone doesn't want to do this. Why?
How about the members of Cattle Producers of Washington who are now getting threats made against them because they asked for the records of cattle moving down from the border?

 

[Bez>]

O.T.

I always say I am not going to get into it and then I do not follow through - so I am about to open myself for more attacks.

In the end there is little any of us can do until the darned folks who have the money (packers and government) get put in their place and for that I do not have the solution.

Fact is there are folks in the U.S. of A. that are buying Canuck cattle and no one is putting a gun to their heads and forcing the issue.

Fact is the U.S. of A. cannot supply the foreign markets AND the U.S. domestic market without imports.

So where is the real answer?

Import that stuff from south of the U.S. of A. ?

Let the foreign markets go?

Personally I get tired of hearing about the "he said / she said" issues because there is no one on this board that knows both sides of the story completely. We read about "threats" and yet I have heard nothing - so as far as I am concerned - rumour.

There are folks here - from north and south of the border with strong opinions and they are entitled to their opinions - but not one of those people has managed to convince me they know enough about what is going on to truly understand the whole story. I only wish they did. It would certainly be something I would listen to.

We hear about illegal imports - seems that may / may not have truly been the case - no one has the entire story - and yes I followed it at Ranchers. It answered few of my questions and certainly created more rather than less questions in my mind. This is because it became a screaming match with finger pointing - and no one managed to tell the entire story - FROM BOTH SIDES.

You know that I personally want the borders closed hard in both directions - probably one of the few Canucks to have this view point. It is not a popular view at this end but it is my view and I am quite prepared to state it.

I am tired of all of the yelling between usually calm and good people.

I am tired of the feed ban issues - yup there have been issues - and no one seems to be willing to admit it has happened on both sides of the border. The real problem is HOW DO WE STOP THEM FROM HAPPENING?

I am tired of folks feeding chicken schitzen to cattle in the southern U.S. of A. and justifying it. I am tired of every feed ban violation being pointed at - no matter where they happen - as the reason someones cattle are vermin.

In fact I am happy the violations are being found.

I truly do not believe the penalties for violation are harsh enough.

I am tired of hearing about how companies are prepared to test 100% and then not being allowed to do so by various government agencies. In fact this is a common occurence on both sides of the border. I am for 100% test - period.

The importation of cattle from other countries - including Mexico - dwarfs those brought in from Canada.

In the end the final question remains - If this problem is to be solved - who will do it and how?

I am not a believer that your COOL will solve the issue - despite the fact I support it.

You come up with that answer to solve the issue completely and you may just become a very rich man.

Awaiting return fire - but I am well dug in ......

Bez>

 

[hillsdown]

Very well said "Bez".We need a solution on both sides of the border,and finger pointing and name calling is not getting us any closer to a solution.The fact is as long as other livestock products move freely across the border we will never be able to control the situation.I feel that we as producers are at the mercy of the feedmills and slaughter houses who are in turn at the mercy of beurocrats.But that is just my opinion. If the border slammed shut on both sides it wouldn't hurt my feelings either but then there mustn't be any travel of any livestock related feed either and then maybe both countries can rectifty this terrible situation instead of the blame game because there will be no one to blame but themseves when more cases show up and they will on both sides of the border if things are being disclosed properly.

 

[Oldtimer]

Bez- I can't argue with you much- I pretty much agree with what you say....But I am a believer in eradicating disease thru quarantine- and at this time the Alberta/Saskatchewan area has a big problem that needs to be eradicated...I am opposed to opening the Canadian border to live cattle because of this- but to both countries-US and Canada...I don't think we should be shipping live cattle back and forth to possibly continue the spread until the disease has been eradicated.....And I'm against the importing/exporting of beef from OTM cattle (unless they are tested), just because of those loopholes/violations in the feedban that the Big Corporates don't want closed...

I think we should be taking a lesson from the UK/EU which is slowly eradicating the disease, but did so by banning all exporting/importing of live animals and/or untested beef....

But I'm also not a believer in importing/exporting live cattle back and forth amongst areas/countries- since thats the way Canada probably ended up with BSE in the first place and our southern border states are having such a battle with TB....

And USDA's newest proposal to now allow Tyson to import from Argentina where FMD has ran rampant is just idiotic to me....

 

[I luv herfrds]

Bez I guess you don't read the same ag papers I do. So what I said is rumor? Well you need to read Agri-News March 9 issue. If you want send me your address and I will send it to them and get you the same info. Luckily this paper does not deal with the BS.
Who needs to stand up and fight? ALL OF US!!!!!!!!!
[/b]

 

[hillsdown]

Bez I guess you don't read the same ag papers I do. So what I said is rumor? Well you need to read Agri-News March 9 issue. If you want send me your address and I will send it to them and get you the same info. Luckily this paper does not deal with the BS.
Who needs to stand up and fight? ALL OF US!!!!!!!!!
[/b]

Just because it is in print does not mean it is true or accurate.Same as those who read it on the internet IT MUST BE TRUE.
S.K where are you did you finally get a day off?

 

[msscamp]

Yes as cattlemen and women we are all in this together, but BSE was NOT found in this country until an imported cow from Canada was diagnosed.

Only because we were lucky. If you believe Canada introduced BSE to the US, you're kidding yourself - plain and simple. Do a little research on the USDA pages - if that doesn't scare the hell out of you, nothing will.

Our feed ban started in 1989. The one cow I heard of that was possibly born in the US was not diagnosed until a couple of years ago.Proper records were not kept to know for sure.

I don't think so. Our feed ban started on a voluntary basis in 1996 - it became mandatory in 1997 - and there have been numerous violations since then. The latest one I'm aware of was last year, I believe, it was detailed in the WLJ.

Cripple Creek Packing asked the USDA if they could do a BSE test on EVERY single animal that came through, but since the USDA has been bought and sold by the Big 4 their request was denied. This happened after Japan banned US beef.

I believe that was actually Creekstone.

A couple of links for your reading pleasure.

http://www.bseinfo.org/resoTimeline.aspx

http://www.bseinfo.org/resoBSE.aspx

 

[Oldtimer]

Actually msscamp-- NCBA called for the voluntary feedban in 1989- which most cattlemen/feed companies honored....

Bez- The article in Agri News that I believe I luv herefords is referring to is one about the members of the Washington Cattle Producers now being threatened and intimidated by someone-since they are still looking into these alledged illegal Canadian cattle and all the violations in the Border quarantine....Receiving threats of bodily harm, and to blacklist them from ever being able to market their cattle again...

If someone will go that far to make it a major felony- then to me "where there is smoke there is definitely a big fire"...Somebody is profitting greatly from illegal activity and doesn't want to lose that profit source to be brazen enough to start using threats to hinder the investigation....

And from what I have been able to learn about the border east of us (ND area) -- we have some "dirty" bureaucrats and civil servants (both countries) that are profitting from some of these border "errors"....

 

[skcatlman]

I have been gone to deliver bulls i sold. And get more bulls ready for a bull sale. I missed a bit but am amazed at the denial some are in there are 2 positive BSE in the US no disputing it. OT there have been no BSE positives ever found in Saskatchewan period, get your propoganda right. OT you are seeing smoke i am asking where are the mirrors ? The matter of the Van Dyke cattle mixup at the plant is closed everything was done right and above board, Just because someone didn't like the out come isn't a reason to try to keep up the rumors. If someone recieved threats in canda they could file charges is that not the case in the US, OT you were employed by a law enforcement agency is this not the case in the US? As far as eliminating BSE by quarentine that is funny look at the OIE website. Test everything OTM and don't take feed ban violations lightly. I hope you have seen the new rule that come in effect in canada in july no SRM in anything even dog food. That will effectively shut the door to all imports of dog food that is playing hard ball.

 

[Oldtimer]

I have been gone to deliver bulls i sold. And get more bulls ready for a bull sale. I missed a bit but am amazed at the denial some are in there are 2 positive BSE in the US no disputing it. OT there have been no BSE positives ever found in Saskatchewan period, get your propoganda right.

I don't think I ever said there were any found in Saskatchewan-I said there is a big problem in Alberta/Saskatchewan... 10 of the 11 positives Canada has found originated in Alberta (other 1 was in Manitoba)- and now the Swift Current/Saskatoon area has 8,000 head of livestock quarantined with the CFIA Head Vet not ruling out a massive destruction of all the animals...
Now to me that is a big problem!! And the last time I was there Swift Current and Saskatoon were both in Saskatchewan :roll: ;-)

OT you are seeing smoke i am asking where are the mirrors ? The matter of the Van Dyke cattle mixup at the plant is closed everything was done right and above board, Just because someone didn't like the out come isn't a reason to try to keep up the rumors. If someone recieved threats in canda they could file charges is that not the case in the US, OT you were employed by a law enforcement agency is this not the case in the US?

And from the article it appears the authorities are now finally launching a complete investigation..

As far as eliminating BSE by quarentine that is funny look at the OIE website. Test everything OTM and don't take feed ban violations lightly. I hope you have seen the new rule that come in effect in canada in july no SRM in anything even dog food. That will effectively shut the door to all imports of dog food that is playing hard ball.

That new feedban doesn't do any good for 4-11 years with the incubation period related to BSE...All it shows me is that CFIA is admitting their old feedban hasn't/isn't working- and they will now try this one....I don't think we should be importing live OTM cattle or OTM beef until we see the evidence that it is/will work.....

 

[I luv herfrds]

Hillsdown I don't believe everything I read whether it be in print or on the internet. I always try to keep on open mind on all issues and take it with a block of salt.
msscamp maybe you need to be a little more informed. Before I wrote that I checked my sources. Namely other cattle producers. Yes they do remember that ban starting in 1989. Everyone I talked to was for it. So what if I got the name wrong, it's been awhile since I read their name.
By the way our records go clear back to 1978 so we can track any animal that was on this place. I was talking about the cow down south that was positive here in the US. There were no accurate records on which farm she came from nor any other info.
Did Canada give the US BSE? No. Is it in our cattle because of them? No. Our feed ban has been in affect longer then Canada. Is this in cattle in both the US and Canada? Yes. Is that what you wanted to hear? Do I blame Canada? No.

 

[skcatlman]

OT you are so good at insinuation and somantic arguments. Check with the CFIA vets involved in this investigation not just the spokesman. As stated earlier a feedlot at Viscount Sask removed from quarentine list(7000 hd capacity. Fairly full) . So your numbers drop quickly check with CFIA on that, it was in media up here as a quote on television broadcast as well. The reason for possibly destroying animals exposed to suspect feed is to ensure safety. How many cattle in the US that consumed feed from a suspect source have been quarentined ? The way your statement was worded implied that there were/are BSE positive cattle in saskatchewan. Which is has not been proven. But in the larger picture yes Canada has had positive BSE animals as does the US has. Broad statements may help your cause but are not completely true. OT from asking questions earlier i ask you to clarify please make yourself clear on what is being investigated and by whom. We are improving on feed ban rules and setting a new higher standard for the world and being leaders if you take that as a negative i can't help it. We up here just want to eliminate BSE and these measures will help. But sitting back and allowing loopholes isn't our way.. Neither is making a comany pay a fine when a violation occurs we trace out all the feed and who it went to. We have a traceback system that has to account for all product not just most. Like some of the recalls in the US where most suspect feed was recalled what does that even mean most 99 % or 51 %.

 

[Bez>]

Bez I guess you don't read the same ag papers I do. So what I said is rumor? Well you need to read Agri-News March 9 issue. If you want send me your address and I will send it to them and get you the same info. Luckily this paper does not deal with the BS.
Who needs to stand up and fight? ALL OF US!!!!!!!!!
[/b]

Sorry you took offense at my comment - but when you can prove it in a court of law I will then agree it is not rumour.

Do not bother sending a copy - I am not interested.

Why?

Because everyone is stirred up over something I have no control over. And you have no control over it either. So much emotion and so little fact.

As for Agri News - never heard of it - lots of ag papers out there - lots of stories in them. Such is life.

Not sure what you mean by "this paper does not deal with the BS". All copy is potential BS - and selling copy is the primary reason for any media outlet to be in print.

I also do not have any say in where the cows go or who buys them and transports them. You do not either. Follow the money.

As I have stated - if you want to read my original again - I want the border closed in BOTH directions.

I also ask you to read what I stated about your export markets.

You cannot supply them without importing foreign beef.

No one ever seems to want to address that issue. Except the packers - who will be operating out of South America in a big way - very soon - to the detriment of the American domestic market.

Your packers will have to import from somewhere and as far as they are concerned you and I and others like us are just noise.

They want cheap supply and cannot get it in North America - vertical integration is coming fast and not many are prepared to confront it.

If things go the way I figure, the North American cow price will be depressed in a big way over the next many years as the demand for export beef and a great deal of domestic beef is met from South America.

Profit is far better when the supply is cheap.

You want to solve the problem? Follow the money. Follow the money.

Those who are getting rich are the ones who are afraid to have this stop.

I can assure you I am not getting rich - and I can assure you I am not interested in some threats - or who made those threats? Charge them. Otherwise those threats may only be rumour. When the investigation - if any is complete then I will be quite happy to see who is involved. Suspect no investigation and no charges will be the end result.

Have a good one,

Bez>

 

[Oldtimer]

Bez

You want to solve the problem? Follow the money. Follow the money.

Those who are getting rich are the ones who are afraid to have this stop.

And look at who has spent millions $ to lobby and buy out Congress to kill or postpone M-COOL since about 1998...

The Multinational Packers, AMI, and their bought out leadership in the USDA and NCBA....

 

[Oldtimer]

How many cattle in the US that consumed feed from a suspect source have been quarentined ? .

Thousands have been in the US- thousands in just one Texas feedlot incident alone- that were then forced to be tracked directly to slaughter UTM...

But these were done back in the 90's to get the word out immediately - instead of waiting 14 years like Canada did after finding their first BSE positive cow.....

Remember the US has not found ANY POST feedban cattle while Canada has found 5 (out of 11 positives), is continuing to find them, and is predicted to find them for years... In fact USDA is predicting Canada will find BSE cows for 20 years....

 

[skcatlman]

OT you seem to be very accurate at numbers when it concerns canadian cattle ,how come you are not the same when you are talking about US cattle you generalize? I suggest you check the latest posts of flounder on this site, he has documentation of what is going on down there in texas,if it is even half true it scares the SH$$ out of me concerning the number of BSE animals that made it into the food chain in the US. Let us look at the HBP inc. feedban violation they were fined no trace on where feed went was done, just a recall on feed not sold to the end user checked it out. Their facility was issued a decree that would close their facility perminently if they had one more violation. How many incedences like this occur and at what frequency in the US. The more i learn the more I think the border should to US imports into canada, at least up here we admit having a problem and are testing and implementing programs to eliminate the problem.

 

[Oldtimer]

skcattle- Its simple- the US has not found 11 BSE positive cattle, with 5 being POST feedban cattle, and one as young as 4 years old, with new positives found every month or two like Canada has- so the reports of the violations don't make big news splash's like they do in Canada- but I guarantee they have been investigated...I know the Texas ones were because my sister was one of the FBI Agents sent to investigate if there were any criminal violations- and she spent months on the investigation, along with USDA, FDA, and State investigators...

Its just that Canada is recognized as a BSE epidemic (cluster) area so that any violation or new case makes big news- while the US has not even found 1 origin case of the typical BSE (the type that has strong evidence supporting the theory it is transmitted by feed)...And it will continue to be big news as long as Canada keeps finding the type cases they have....

And I agree with you- Canada should close the border to OTM beef and OTM live cattle- as neither country should be taking the risk of passing the varying strains (that the scientists are just finding evidence of now) back and forth to possibly continue the spread- just so the Packers can profit from the action...
Especially with some of the evidence pointing to the theory that the atypical variety may be transmitted by direct contact rather than by feed consumption....
If we are going to error we should err on the side of safety....

 

[skcatlman]

FBI agents investigating BSE ? Texas ones - plural ? more than 1 BSE positive in texas ? 2003 -2007 10 cases average 2.5 cases per year is not monthly. The numbers the OIE projected, why aren't the US numbers matching the projected numbers (DENIAL) Odd 1 case found in southern manitoba is the same strain as US cases, could it have been infected by contaminated US feed? seems plausible. To bad feed ban violations aren't taken seriously in the US. Are you saying more BSE cases in the US won't be important ? OT am i hearing you right, you think that BSE is coming into Canada from the US maybe you guys should increase testing. Sorry transmission by contact- how butting heads? LOL

 

[msscamp]

Actually msscamp-- NCBA called for the voluntary feedban in 1989- which most cattlemen/feed companies honored....

Who? :lol: :lol: Voluntary is the keyword here - there are still some feedmills who won't adhere to the mandatory feed ban, yet you expect me to believe they accepted a voluntary one? Get real.

 

[skcatlman]

Ot check a medical dictionary ,i know saying epidemic inspires fear. Up here we are finding BSE at the OIE expected rates so it is not a epidemic. we are finding the expected numbers because of our high rate of testing of target animals and amazingly alot of these animals are voluntarily(sp) being tested. US feedmills not adhereing to manditory feedban and did they to the voluntarily. LMAO
Again up here we want to get rid of BSE not just control it. But that seems the difference between the way animal health issues are dealt with in our respective countries. In the US contol is what is targeted while in canada erradication is the targeted. Prime examples are Tb and Brucellosis in the US you test and vaccinate according to US regulations. Where as in canada our policy is scorched earth if a positive case is found the whole herd is exterminated. That is why in the feedban violation up here, if there is a chance the animals eating suspect feed they all will die. We don't do half measures- kill them and sort it out later.