50-50 chance

[9 ER]

Got home this evening and went to check on a two day old calf and when she got up she wouldn't put any weight on her back leg. I checked her leg(with momma watching my every move) and found swelling. I didn't know if maybe she got stepped on or what. I remember you guys saying that if ever in doubt, call the vet. I put her in my truck and took her to vet. It turned out that she had an infection from her navel that traveled to her joint. The doc drained it and shot some antibiotics in there and said she has a 50-50 chance to survive and that if I wouldn't have brought her when I did that she probable wouldn't have a chance at all.

I would just like to thank you guys for this site and sharing of your knowledge with us rookies. If not for this site I probable would have just left her alone and hoped for the best. Now at least she has a 50-50 chance which is better than nothing so I'll keep my fingers crossed. The next one will definately get some iodine. Thanks again

 

[Beefy]

Milkmaid can tell you all about navel ill.

 

[msscamp]

I hope she comes out of it, 9ER. Congratulations on your timely intervention, as well.

 

[9 ER]

Thanks, I'm supposed to give her 5 shots of antiobiotics and 2 shots of penny. I have a couple of questions.
Should the penny shots go under the skin in the neck area or where the infection is located?
When will I know if she is gonna make it or not?

I was told 101 was the avg temp. She has 103. At what temp is a calf in serious trouble?

Thanks for the replies.

 

[milkmaid]

Oh boy...navel ill...yes I know that one. :shock:

I picked up a freebie in late August/early September of last year.

I wondered the same thing as you; stepped on? broken? dislocated? nuh-uh. Joint infection; vet ran a culture and it was e-coli that entered through the navel and localized in the stifle joint.

Calf is now approximately 5 months, 350lbs and still...well, let's say I wish I could go back to when I first got her with the knowledge I have now. One, knowing how she looks now, I wouldn't hesitate like I did about putting her on the illegal drugs. Two, I would have treated it much more aggressively.

What I did do - she had one injection in the joint of sulfa. Then the infected area flushed with saline water and gentamycin (illegal drug). Then had her on SMZs for a few days (I didn't like the results/reaction and do keep in mind it can cause liver/kidney damage). Then she was on an every-other-day dose of Nuflor for a month. And Banamine. And Sodium Iodide IVs. And Micotil. And Gentamycin. And Nitrofurazone-DMSO (another illegal one). And there might have been more that I can't remember right now. Run a quick search on the boards; I believe I had three separate topics about that calf.

So........if I could go back, I would have started with draining the area, cleaning it well, and putting her on Nuflor. Vicky tells me that one only causes damage to the intestinal flora with long-term use (can be fixed with probiotic), as opposed to other drugs that tend to cause kidney damage. Would have also run Sodium Iodide IVs to start with - that targets bacteria in the bone, which is really what you're dealing with. No withdrawal; all it is, is putting a heavy concentration of iodine in the bloodstream that kills bacteria. Also, I've recently decided to put a little more effort/money into my calf, and I went and had two iodine IVs done a week apart, and now, over this past week, I've been aggressively using a NFZ-DMSO mix (liquid) that I spray on the area, and I'm liking the results. (Might give you guys another update on her soon.)

DMSO penetrates the tissue (taking the NFZ with it-antibacterial stuff) and also increases blood flow to the area. Might give that a try - DMSO at the very least. It isn't approved for food-producing animals, but 1) when the calf has a 50-50 chance anyways... and 2) it isn't going to have a very long withdrawal time. My vet was telling me today I could use it on lactating dairy cows, and it's metabolized and eliminated quickly - suggested a 48hr withdrawal.

I've seen the way my calf is --- she's not used to putting any weight on one leg, and the other leg is having to support all her weight, so...not good. She'd had it for about 2 weeks before I acquired her, and the longer they go the harder they are to treat. I've decided if I ever deal with it again, it needs to be brought under control as quickly as possible.

Which antibiotics are you using?

 

[Victoria]

Hope your calf makes it. This board is great for information.

 

[9 ER]

Milkmaid,
The vet gave me baytril. Went to check on her this evening and she was walking with no noticeable limp. She even ran around some. Momma worries me though. This is her first calf and she has coke bottle nipples(6 of them) and doesnt seem to want her to nurse much. Any sugestions? She will grow wheels before she calves again.

Also, can anyone answer the temp. question?

Thanks Victoria

 

[9 ER]

Here is pic of the navel ill calf. I call her 50-50.

 

[msscamp]

She's a cutie, but I'm a sucker for black brockle-faces!

 

[Bama]

Milkmaid,
and she has coke bottle nipples(6 of them) and doesnt seem to want her to nurse much.

Thanks Victoria

6 of them the size of coke bottles??

 

[9 ER]

sorry about that. She does have 6 nipples, but only 4 are well above average in size.

 

[TR]

I had 2 first calvers (sisters) out here this past year with coke bottle nipples. First calf was an easy pull, but was weak, so we stripped the mama and tubed the calf his first meal as he hadn't nursed in 12 hrs, then I milked her 2 more times and fought with the calf to get his dinner down him. After that 3rd arguement with the calf, I figured if he's too strong for me to hold, then he was strong enough to find his own dinner. No more problems with the coke bottles.....

The calf from the 2nd cow was working on the back two only for a few days, so we pulled mama up and stripped her for a week until the calf latched on to the front two too. I suspect that he would have gotten around to the front two eventually. However, I was out of town for my off the ranch job, and the gal who watches the place for me got a little worried about the possibility of mastitis, so bless her heart, she was the one who pulled the cow up to milk. Either way, the calves turned out fine, mamas were heavy milkers and weaned off good sized calves.

 

[Texan]

Also, can anyone answer the temp. question?

I was told 101 was the avg temp. She has 103. At what temp is a calf in serious trouble?

A good average temp is 101.5. But that can vary some depending on the time of day and activity. I like to take temps early mornings, after no activity, for real comparisions. Doesn't really matter when you do it, just so you account for physical activity and time of day in comparisons.

Healthy cattle can actually have a temp of 102.5, so everything over 101.5 is not necessarily a problem. As for the 'serious trouble' you ask about, I guess it depends on what you consider serious. With temps over 105, I believe in using the more powerful products, such as the newer generation antibiotics. But for the lower temps, I give the older products a chance first.

And you're in very capable hands with Milkmaid on your side.

 

[milkmaid]

Milkmaid,
The vet gave me baytril. Went to check on her this evening and she was walking with no noticeable limp. She even ran around some. Momma worries me though. This is her first calf and she has coke bottle nipples(6 of them) and doesnt seem to want her to nurse much. Any sugestions? She will grow wheels before she calves again.

Sounds good. Keep in mind extended use of Baytril can cause cartilage damage, so I wouldn't go past the 3 days recommended under multiple dose treatment.

I don't know if I'd be so quick to cull a first calf heifer based on that - it would be more dependent on just what that udder looked like. Sometimes with that first calf they get a lot of swelling, and I tend to find that the longer they take to bag up, the bigger those teats are. Aren't neccessarily that way next lactation though. They can shrink right down after a few weeks and be good next time. Had a holstein heifer calve yesterday with some really massive teats that I couldn't even get my hand around, and a lot of swelling, but they're short teats, and unless I'm completely mistaken, given a month that heifer will look like an average cow and I seriously doubt she'll look anything like this at calving next lactation.

 

[Beef11]

milkmaid do you have any edema problems up there on your place or where you work?

 

[milkmaid]

Occasionally.

First calf heifers aren't a real big deal...mature cows are. Severe edema sure ruins a good cow's udder. I heard tell of a drug called Salix that's specifically for reducing edema, and I'd sure like to try that on the next severe case. Curiousity, as usual; kind of like to know if that works as well as it claims.

 

[dun]

Occasionally.

First calf heifers aren't a real big deal...mature cows are. Severe edema sure ruins a good cow's udder. I heard tell of a drug called Salix that's specifically for reducing edema, and I'd sure like to try that on the next severe case. Curiousity, as usual; kind of like to know if that works as well as it claims.

We've used Lasix in the past. Takes 2 shots 12-24 hours apart and seemed to completely eliminate the edema

dun

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

Milkmaid, I guess I will disagree with you on the analysis of the "coke bottle" teats. All my experience says they WILL GET WORSE. There isn't much worse than having a cow that the calf can't get the teats in their mouth.
In your situation, you can intervene very easily. Not so easy with our beef cows. And when you're busy calving, you sure don't need a cow that needs that extra help.
Depending on your situation, maybe you have time to help the calf get the teats down to size, but in my case, I'd be shipping her, especially since I make most of my living selling heifers. Wouldn't want to propagate a poor udder.

 

[sidney411]

I will agree that the cows that have the coke bottle teats seem to get worse with each calving. In my limited experience this has been the case. As long as the calf can get 2 of the teats they will work up to the others but by that time you may have a case of mastitis too.

To the origional post - I had a calf just like that. The poor thing couldn't even raise his head by the time I found him. I rushed him to the vet in the floorboard of the truck and the vet gave him about a 25% chance of living. He had a 104 temp, limp like a rag doll. I gave him 3 days worth of nuflor and 5 days worth of quatracon (sp) and right now he's out in the pasture with momma. He has a small limp in the rear but gets along fine. I was lucky with that one.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

It only takes one naval ill case to make a believer out of you for CLEAN calving area, and dipping naval with iodine. I'm not saying this will eliminate 100% of naval ill, but it sure does reduce the possibility.