5 yrs for burning 139 acres of BLM

[fenceman]

Sounds like a plan grit.

 

[True Grit Farms]

I have no plan, but what's new. But it's hard to get behind someone that's making a living off of our land, and doesn't want to pay a lease for the privilege. You know the ranchers are getting it for way under market value, and their still pizzing and moaning. Plus they get to sell the grazing rights to the BLM grazing lease. So does that make the BLM grazing lease an asset?
Of course it does all the while being tax free to the rancher.

 

[dun]

I have no plan, but what's new. But it's hard to get behind someone that's making a living off of our land, and doesn't want to pay a lease for the privilege. You know the ranchers are getting it for way under market value, and their still pizzing and moaning. Plus they get to sell the grazing rights to the BLM grazing lease. So does that make the BLM grazing lease an asset?
Of course it does all the while being tax free to the rancher.

If you saw the amount of work that those ranchers put in to make the land useful and then to maintain it you might have a different picture.

 

[Kathie in Thorp]

The whole situation is a mess, to put it nicely.

With true sincerity, what can we as normal everyday folks on the east coast, or Texas, or Missouri, etc, do to actually help the cause? Besides calling elected officials, who probably will dismiss the thought as soon as the phone hangs up, what can we do? Again, I'm asking sincerely.

JMJ Farms, appreciate your concern. Yes, contact your U.S. senators, congress people. We don't need more land out here -- thousands and thousands of acres -- set aside by legislation or presidential decree as "Nat'l Monuments, Wilderness areas, or Parks." No offense to those that don't live out here in the West, but decisions on that are made and supported by folks from the eastern states that have no frk'n clue what goes on out here with land or water issues. BLM and Forest Service had $$ reserved to go on the offense to prevent range and forest fires, but that money got used up fighting fires. Money for those agencies have been cut a bunch. Most out here don't give a rat's azz about reintroduction of wolves and big bears -- they are problems for livestock folks. We'd like to see cooperation between the state and federal agencies, land owners, grazing or timber lessors, the tribes and "conservationists". Timber, grazing, water -- and that includes salmon restoration -- big issues out here. Ranchers are concerned about conservation -- they are some of the best conservationists, as their livelihood often depends on it. Thanks for asking!

 

[W.T]

I have no plan, but what's new. But it's hard to get behind someone that's making a living off of our land, and doesn't want to pay a lease for the privilege. You know the ranchers are getting it for way under market value, and their still pizzing and moaning. Plus they get to sell the grazing rights to the BLM grazing lease. So does that make the BLM grazing lease an asset?
Of course it does all the while being tax free to the rancher.

If you saw the amount of work that those ranchers put in to make the land useful and then to maintain it you might have a different picture.

Very observant Dun. There are no free lunches running cattle .

 

[Kathie in Thorp]

I have no plan, but what's new. But it's hard to get behind someone that's making a living off of our land, and doesn't want to pay a lease for the privilege. You know the ranchers are getting it for way under market value, and their still pizzing and moaning. Plus they get to sell the grazing rights to the BLM grazing lease. So does that make the BLM grazing lease an asset?
Of course it does all the while being tax free to the rancher.

If you saw the amount of work that those ranchers put in to make the land useful and then to maintain it you might have a different picture.

Very observant Dun. There are no free lunches running cattle .

There aren't free lunches. If you chose not to pay your grazing fees (for years????), you might lose them.

 

[Cross-7]

A little refresher
Bundy paid his fees until they cut his and the other 50 ranchers allotted numbers for the desert tortoise
He argued
The other 50 ranchers quit due to not having enough cows to make a living

Had the BLM not cut the au's using the endangered species act none of this would of happened.

There have been numerous documented cases of the BLM and USFS removing cattle from public lands

 

[Toad]

I haven't followed the federal land/grazing issues as closely as some have but there seem to be some basic princibles that apply anywhere in the country. When you lease land to farm you don't have as much control. I see farmers locally who get extremely upset when a landowner wants to change or raise the lease when it comes up for renewal. Its the same attitude I see from the ranchers in question. Guess what, when you lease from the government you have to deal with the extra bs that comes along with it. They made the decision to ranch in those conditions, they know what they are dealing with. If the governemnt gets too hard to deal with there is nothing stopping them from walking away and buying private property somewhere else.
I'm a small government guy, I don't want the feds involved in every part of our lives. But I think it is wise to have some land set aside that will never be developed. I live near national forest here in Virginia and its a really good thing. This country is growing at a rate where within 100 years there will very few completely open spaces left. Its a good thing to have public space set aside where those living in the suburbs can go and actually experiance the great outdoors.

 

[Kathie in Thorp]

A little refresher
Bundy paid his fees until they cut his and the other 50 ranchers allotted numbers for the desert tortoise
He argued
The other 50 ranchers quit due to not having enough cows to make a living

Had the BLM not cut the au's using the endangered species act none of this would of happened.

There have been numerous documented cases of the BLM and USFS removing cattle from public lands

If you deal with the Feds or States, you deal with endangered species. Tortoise, wild horses, grouse, OWLS, little squiggly things in the water that you've never heard of before. Wolf and mountain lion and bobcat and bear. You fight with the staters about elk and deer tearing up hay stacks and fences -- they are not endangered, but they sure make a mess. THAT IS LIFE IN THE WEST.

 

[Bigfoot]

I don't know enough about the BLM, or leases to comment on them. I do know that people are upset, and it seems to be the kind of upset when your personal life is tracked on, not your financial life.

 

[W.T]

Very observant Dun. There are no free lunches running cattle .[/quote]
There aren't free lunches. If you chose not to pay your grazing fees (for years????), you might lose them.[/quote]

Maybe you can use some of your legal expertise and let this forum know just how Nevada water right laws work from the 1860's. The way I read it when someone files on a Spring he owns all the water and the grass that grows from that spring. So if that spring runs for several miles that means that the owner of those water rights owns the grass, that water grows. Many different lawyers have interpreted these laws in many different ways. But so far that has held up in court in Nevada. And Mr Bundy has Nevada water rights on several springs. Therefore your statement may or may not be truthful. I have not condoned the Bundy's in any way but I will not call them thieves or liars either, just not enough facts have been shown me to make that call. If this was so cut and dried people would have been in jail in 2014, believe me if Harry Reid could have made the charges stick it would have already been done. In Southern Nevada the majority of the grazing leases are owned by The Southern Nevada Water Authority Mister Reids sons are all Lawyer's for the Southern Nevada Water Authority With his oldest Rory being the President of there board of directors. So before we all have a Trial on the internet and Convict the Bundy's maybe we should dig a little deeper in to the motives of Mr Harry Reid.

 

[Kathie in Thorp]

Very observant Dun. There are no free lunches running cattle .

There aren't free lunches. If you chose not to pay your grazing fees (for years????), you might lose them.[/quote]

Maybe you can use some of your legal expertise and let this forum know just how Nevada water right laws work from the 1860's. The way I read it when someone files on a Spring he owns all the water and the grass that grows from that spring. So if that spring runs for several miles that means that the owner of those water rights owns the grass, that water grows. Many different lawyers have interpreted these laws in many different ways. But so far that has held up in court in Nevada. And Mr Bundy has Nevada water rights on several springs. Therefore your statement may or may not be truthful. I have not condoned the Bundy's in any way but I will not call them thieves or liars either, just not enough facts have been shown me to make that call. If this was so cut and dried people would have been in jail in 2014, believe me if Harry Reid could have made the charges stick it would have already been done. In Southern Nevada the majority of the grazing leases are owned by The Southern Nevada Water Authority Mister Reids sons are all Lawyer's for the Southern Nevada Water Authority With his oldest Rory being the President of there board of directors. So before we all have a Trial on the internet and Convict the Bundy's maybe we should dig a little deeper in to the motives of Mr Harry Reid.[/quote]
I don't live in Nevada and I'm not an attorney. I pay attention to what's going on nearby. You can do your own research on Nevada and the Bundys. BUT, undisputed, Senior Mr. Bundy refused to pay for his grazing leases for a number of years. Then came the feds with liens. That was Nevada. Then the Bundy brothers came to Oregon, in support of the Hammonds, but turned it into a side-show, armed, take-over of a federal facility, and stating that would not leave until fed lands were returned. Returned to who? A few local ranchers? Who? Who should get that ground? And someone got killed. Pretty frk'n stupid.

 

[W.T]

Wonderful reply thank you.

 

[Bigfoot]

I'm drawing a blank. Can anyone else remember the FBI, state police, or local law enforcement agency releasing video of an officer involved shooting this quickly? I have seen videos in the past, just not before the investigation was complete. It may happen all the time, and I'm just not paying attention.

 

[Cross-7]

Is the video real
With today technology anything is possible

This isn't real
[youtube]https://youtu.be/ps2Swv8dhu4 [/youtube]

 

[W.T]

LMAO... :banana: :banana: :banana:

 

[W.T]

http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/f ... etter.html

 

[Cross-7]

The agent that was nearly ran over
Did he step out in front of the vehicle and put a few rounds into it ?
Were they shooting at the vehicle and that's why LaVoy got out to draw the fire away from the girls ?
Did they shoot LaVoy and that is why he reached for his side ?
Did the fbi stop the vehicle's before they reached the meeting knowing the outcome ?
Is what the the fbi is reporting a true account of what happened ?

I have no idea but I know there is Lots of evil in this world and its seems we're are going to elect a very evil one as president

 

[fenceman]

They definitely knew where they were heading.
Probably the good sherriff they were going to meet with set them up. I would definitely like to see the dash cam videos with audio. After situations like Waco and the original Bundy situation it seems the Fed's have gotten smart enough to do their business were they have control of all video.
I still think lavoys killing was probably justified, war is he11.
What needs to be focused on is the reason why these men felt so passionate. These were men with land and family, they had more to live for than to die for. That tells me something

 

[True Grit Farms]

If LaVoy would of stopped the vehicle cooperated with law enforcement like Ammon Bundy did would he still be alive today?
When LaVoy exited his vehicle if he would've kept his arms up and turned with his back to them would he of still been killed? And if the officers still killed him would the public really demand answers? No one likes a back stabber.
I have a hard time thinking LaVoy wanted to be killed, he was a asset to the cause.
But he sure did some stupid leading up to his death.