Your Opportunity to Chime in on Greg Judy's Methods

[TexasRancher]

What do you really think about Greg Judy's methods? Just be kind and accurately discuss what you like about his new-novel methods.

Personally, my thoughts.....Greg capitalized and is the master of collecting up low-cost leased lands and growing his herd. His breeding program is a bit sketchy with young bulls inter-breeding...not being separated. Greg is a you-tube contributor and master at Media Farm Funding...kudos to him and his family.

Below are items I found i really liked and disliked with Greg's teachings/methods: (just 4 notable items for me)

A.) I liked Greg Judy's bird houses...for fly-eating barn swallows. It's an innovative solution and a functional build.

B.) I liked his method of not buying steel (tractor's, dozers-toys) as a cost savings...minimal steel as a cattle producer equates to more money in your pocket. Although looks are deceiving he has lots of steel toys, ATVs, Trailers and fancy hay unrollers.

C.) Greg Judy's "regenerative grazing"…what a bunch of bunk! Cattle grazing the land and pooing have always been regenerative, helping to seed and improve the pastureland since the beginning of time. They've always known about regenerating improving land with cattle… there's nothing new about that or his books and training school.

D.) Greg Judy's rotational grazing method using hot wires is ridiculous! The reason people use hot wire rotation with cattle is because they haven't addressed three serious issues:

• They don't have enough land/acreage to support the cattle's nutritional needs.
• Or they have too many cattle on the land to support the cattle's nutritional needs.
• They don't have any real perimeter fencing- w/paddock gating.

Plus, who in their right mind would want to go out every day or 2 times a day and move their wires and cattle- centered on water; either building new infrastructure supplying water or moving water?

All the big successful cattle producers I know Do Not use rotational hot wires….they provide adequate land for each cow/calf pair and build real fences w/ gates and rotate cattle minimally/monthly into those permanently fenced perimeter areas.

 

[Brute 23]

I haven't seen all his stuff like the grazing methods but the accounting side seems like common sense.

With all these kinds of things I think people take it too literally. It's meant to be a basic template to get you organized and thinking about these issues. You still have to customize it to your operation.

 

[Dave]

I have to admit I haven't read any of Greg's stuff in years. Mainly because everything of his I have seen I had previously seen years before presented by someone else. As far as I know he just takes other's ideas and makes money presenting them to the public.
Once again it is a big old world out there. You look at ideas and see if they adapt to your operation.

 

[Allenw]

There is a lot of information on the internet and it doesn't hurt to look at different perspectives of how things are done. I try to be open minded about the information I find and glean what I can from it for my own use.

Apparently Greg's plan works well for him and I've gleaned some information from his you tube videos. But mostly what it does is make me think and lookat what I'm doing and could I do something different.

My high school English teacher always said that if you say something is stupid it's because your not capable of understanding it.

 

[bird dog]

I have more faith in Stocker Steve

 

[Lucky]

Remember one thing about the you tube ranchers......They make allot of money by just saying things. The things they say may or may not work but, as long as people listen they get paid. They are kinda like the host on the evening news talk shows....just get the people to tune in.

 

[RDFF]

What do you really think about Greg Judy's methods? Just be kind and accurately discuss what you like about his new-novel methods.

A.) I liked Greg Judy's bird houses...for fly-eating barn swallows. It's an innovative solution and a functional build.

I think Greg has an inspirational story, backed by solid success in his "context", and much can be learned by listening to his suggestions.

His birdhouses are NOT designed for barn swallows, but rather, tree swallows. Big difference between how the two "nest" (solitary vs. colonial, in a cavity or box vs. mud nest on a protected wall), etc. In Missouri, he's in the tree swallow's natural range... but up here in Minnesota, we're not really in their territory at all... but barn swallows are here.

B.) I liked his method of not buying steel (tractor's, dozers-toys) as a cost savings...minimal steel as a cattle producer equates to more money in your pocket. Although looks are deceiving he has lots of steel toys, ATVs, Trailers and fancy hay unrollers.

He has some reasonably necessary iron/steel, without a doubt, but if you look carefully, I think you'd find that his "iron investment" is significantly lower per AU than most. I doubt he has anything that's not paying its way.

D.) Greg Judy's rotational grazing method using hot wires is ridiculous! The reason people use hot wire rotation with cattle is because they haven't addressed three serious issues:

• They don't have enough land/acreage to support the cattle's nutritional needs.
• Or they have too many cattle on the land to support the cattle's nutritional needs.
• They don't have any real perimeter fencing- w/paddock gating.

Plus, who in their right mind would want to go out every day or 2 times a day and move their wires and cattle- centered on water; either building new infrastructure supplying water or moving water?

All the big successful cattle producers I know Do Not use rotational hot wires….they provide adequate land for each cow/calf pair and build real fences w/ gates and rotate cattle minimally/monthly into those permanently fenced perimeter areas.

This gets back to context again. He's in Missouri... with lots of "grass" and water. His stocking density per acre, and grazing density per each graze (days break) is considerably higher than anybody could ever achieve with a "set stock" situation (and I'll include "monthly rotations" as "set stock"... i.e., where you're not moving them VERY REGULARLY... weekly at a minimum, if not daily or more).

Your first two of three "serious issues that haven't been addressed" are essentially the same.... not enough land/too many cattle per amount of land to support the cattle's nutritional needs... However, Greg HAS successfully addressed this issue... by using hotwire to rotate the cattle, with the result being the land IS able to support the number that he's running. Your suggestion that this "is ridiculous" is unwarranted IMO.... but I will grant that it also is accurate... since it has earned at least your ridicule.

To suggest that Greg, or others who emulate his practices don't have any real perimeter fencing- w/paddock gating is an unwarranted observation. Greg puts in reasonably substantial perimeter fence... 3 HT hotwires I believe, with fiberglass posts, and braced corners. He operates on several (16 now I think) different properties... each connected with gates. So he would have the opportunity to graze it as you've suggested... with "minimal/monthy" rotations, if he wanted to do it that way... but he's found that by moving them daily/twice daily, he can better and more successfully address your first two of three "serious issues"... thereby, he is able to run a higher animal density/acre and still better support their nutritional needs.

I'm NOT saying that YOU, or anyone else, would be able to achieve the same level of density per acre that he does or can. That's "context"... and every individual operator must choose what will work best for them. Greg's made that choice... and so have you.

Who in their right mind would want to go out every day or 2 times a day and move their wires and cattle? Anybody interested in fully maximizing the carrying capacity of their land.

Will it be a more difficult task, if you're operating on a much larger land scale, with a much lower animal density per acre, because of the context you might be working in? Absolutely.

Might that make you feel that it's "ridiculous" to be moving that much wire, or adding water infrastructure in order to do it? Obviously..., it makes you feel that way. And that's OK... you're entitled to your opinion, and I will respect your right to it.

I just think that you're trying to grasp what he's doing, with an understanding based in YOUR CONTEXT... rather than from his. Lots of difference between Missouri and Ferris, TX.

 

[SDM]

Does anyone have any idea how many acres/pair- (or the inverse) he operates at, approximately? I watched his videos for a while and it seemed like he had quite a few acres total for the number of animals. But that was from trying to piece details together. I never heard him actually address it.

 

[50/50Farms]

He answered some questions for me via email a good many moons ago, so I appreciate that from him, can't beat free.99 when it comes to advice. Now of course, he did try to recommend south polls in the same string of correspondence but that's business, a man has a right to do that. I think both his sheep and cattle operations look pretty efficient, and he's selected appropriately for the traits he prizes most. I'm not sold on the extensive use of polywire and stuff but that's me. He's a good speaker and compelling teacher which is good because a lot of young operators have been inspired by him, and numbers are needed in all facets of ag right now, plus he educates other crowds as well. I don't know for sure what the split is of what he makes ranching and what he makes talking, but he's making a pile of money and still has time to turkey hunt a bunch from what I've gathered, so I really can't say that it matters; I was raised to be neither envious nor nosy.

As far as the regenerative grazing being "his" I also don't know that that matters either, he's the teacher so he gets to name the class. No different than when you were in school and it was "Mr. Smith's European History"... No, European history wasn't invented by Mr. Smith, nor does he own the title rights, but it's his class so who cares? One has to be careful not to go looking for stuff to complain about or one can end up exactly like the portions of the population we're always commiserating about.

 

[tsellars]

Does anyone have any idea how many acres/pair- (or the inverse) he operates at, approximately? I watched his videos for a while and it seemed like he had quite a few acres total for the number of animals. But that was from trying to piece details together. I never heard him actually address it.

I think I have heard on one of his videos that he has 1600ish acres and runs around 350 head.

 

[SDM]

That's around the number I inferred. 350 total so 175 pairs, plus a group of bulls to sell. Maybe I don't know Missouri, but to me it sure seems that much fescue could support a right smart more momma cows.

 

[RDFF]

You have to keep in mind that he's not talking about just the "grass acres"... he's got alot of woods in that area too. The woods don't yield hardly anything for "grazing/feeding" potential... or at least a whole lot less. I grew up in the bluff uplands of SE MN along the Mississippi River... about half of our pasture was in "woods", the rest native grasses/forbes. The cattle ran in the woods for sure, but they didn't get much for feed value from them. Last I heard him tell, he was at about 1600 acres TOTAL.

I don't know, but I'd say that Greg's probably about the same... 1/2 woods/1/2 grassland. Mostly "native"... he doesn't really believe much in seeding in... but DOES count on his purchased hay to add seed to the seedbank. I think he's running more like 300 pairs, potentially more??? That said, I also have kinda had the opinion that he's not stretching his AU/acre too far overall (context???... what will the land support...). I generally will figure I can safely do about 1.25 acres per AU here, on converted cropland. And remember when calculating AU's, he's running smaller framed South Polls... so his "# of head" should be higher than most of us.

Here's an image of his place. That largest generally open area kind of surrounding his place, including the triangle up top across the road measures out to 116 acres... so that gives you some perspective (it just happens that that's where I was able to see some cattle on the image too). He's covering alot of woods.

 

[chaded]

He is also running a flock of sheep in addition to the cattle. If I remember correctly, I thought the cattle herd was 300-350 total.

I have talked with him a couple times and he has always been helpful. I have his books and I also have one of his bale unrollers (the folks that make them for him are nice people).

I can't do what he does because I don't have the land or the opportunity but what I do is look at more of the principles of what he is doing and apply what I can.

 

[Dave]

All the big successful cattle producers I know Do Not use rotational hot wires….they provide adequate land for each cow/calf pair and build real fences w/ gates and rotate cattle minimally/monthly into those permanently fenced perimeter areas.

I know one huge producer here who use the portable hot wires to graze several thousand yearlings on irrigated pastures. These yearlings are not all in a single group. I don't knwo how many cow/calves they have. But I do know they have about a 40,000 head feedlot in addition to their pasture cattle. And they are big enough cattle business that they have there own private plane (jet?) to fly them around the country to business meetings. I know their pilot.

 

[StrojanHerefords]

First, I really appreciate that Greg is a self made. So many "successful ranchers" are just living off of what their grandpa did. No Risk Ranching is a great read. His idea of owning the fences on leased ground is brilliant.
That being said I find him along with the most of the rest of the regenerative gurus are targeting the naive back to nature crowd (Modern agriculture is bad crowd).

 

[50/50Farms]

That being said I find him along with the most of the rest of the regenerative gurus are targeting the naive back to nature crowd (Modern agriculture is bad crowd).

To be fair, many of the startups couldn't afford to do it any other way.

 

[Nesikep]

D.) Greg Judy's rotational grazing method using hot wires is ridiculous! The reason people use hot wire rotation with cattle is because they haven't addressed three serious issues:

• They don't have enough land/acreage to support the cattle's nutritional needs.
• Or they have too many cattle on the land to support the cattle's nutritional needs.
• They don't have any real perimeter fencing- w/paddock gating.

Plus, who in their right mind would want to go out every day or 2 times a day and move their wires and cattle- centered on water; either building new infrastructure supplying water or moving water?

All the big successful cattle producers I know Do Not use rotational hot wires….they provide adequate land for each cow/calf pair and build real fences w/ gates and rotate cattle minimally/monthly into those permanently fenced perimeter areas.

I can't speak to the rest of it, but using hot wires is totally reasonable, I can fence a mile for a couple hundred bucks. and I can take the fence out in an hour. I do think that moving daily is way too labor intensive, I have other things to do, but no doubt that it's effective, I aim for about a week-10 days in a paddock. If the ground has the moisture, I can pretty much say that the grass essentially doesn't grow while the cows are on it for long periods of time, they're eating the fresh bits which is bad for future growth. In too big a paddock they'll graze their favourite spots to the ground and anything that's a little less tasty gets wasted.
I have my main fields fenced out with real fences, but do subdivide them with polywire.. I have a spool on a cordless drill and wrap up 1/8th mile in a couple minutes.. posts 50 ft apart, just drive along with the quad and pull them or step them in, my fencer is on a post that's on an old brake drum, usually that grounds well enough i don't need to get fancy with ground rods.

 

[SDM]

You have to keep in mind that he's not talking about just the "grass acres"... he's got alot of woods in that area too. The woods don't yield hardly anything for "grazing/feeding" potential... or at least a whole lot less. I grew up in the bluff uplands of SE MN along the Mississippi River... about half of our pasture was in "woods", the rest native grasses/forbes. The cattle ran in the woods for sure, but they didn't get much for feed value from them. Last I heard him tell, he was at about 1600 acres TOTAL.

I don't know, but I'd say that Greg's probably about the same... 1/2 woods/1/2 grassland. Mostly "native"... he doesn't really believe much in seeding in... but DOES count on his purchased hay to add seed to the seedbank. I think he's running more like 300 pairs, potentially more??? That said, I also have kinda had the opinion that he's not stretching his AU/acre too far overall (context???... what will the land support...). I generally will figure I can safely do about 1.25 acres per AU here, on converted cropland. And remember when calculating AU's, he's running smaller framed South Polls... so his "# of head" should be higher than most of us.

Here's an image of his place. That largest generally open area kind of surrounding his place, including the triangle up top across the road measures out to 116 acres... so that gives you some perspective (it just happens that that's where I was able to see some cattle on the image too). He's covering alot of woods.

So ~800 acres of pasture with somewhere between 175 and 350 pairs. He buys in what hay he does use. That doesn't seem like he's pushing things very hard. I think there's merit to some of what he does for sure, but I don't see anything I'd pay to hear him talk about.

Maybe he sells to a different market, but are red cattle not discounted in Missouri? Here those things would be $10-15/cwt lower than black cattle. Seems he'd run black bulls with them.

 

[chaded]

So ~800 acres of pasture with somewhere between 175 and 350 pairs. He buys in what hay he does use. That doesn't seem like he's pushing things very hard. I think there's merit to some of what he does for sure, but I don't see anything I'd pay to hear him talk about.

Maybe he sells to a different market, but are red cattle not discounted in Missouri? Here those things would be $10-15/cwt lower than black cattle. Seems he'd run black bulls with them.

His philosophy is to stock for a drought, not to see how many head he can max. My environment here is very similar to his and I don't think I would want to push much more then he does if the goal is to graze year round with very little hay used.

He does have a very different market. He sells direct to consumer (grass fed beef) and breeding stock.

 

[Ebenezer]

If it seems too good to be true, it usually is. That one seldom fails. If farming was so lucrative, he would not need the off farm income of youtube, speaking, whatever else he peddles and the high prices for his animals as breeders. Say whatever: small off colored cattle, regardless of who owned them, are worth less and in my mind, worthless, as commercial cattle.