Your Opportunity to Chime in on Greg Judy's Methods

[StrojanHerefords]

I am intrigued by Greg Judy's discussion of cow size and how it may relate to lbs. of weaned calf per acre vs. lbs. weaned per cow. Kit Pharo has the same idea — most of the time a pot load of 500 lb calves should bring more $ than a pot load of heavier calves, especially if the smaller ones have a third more head count. My best value seems to be in the number of live calves weaned, not weaning weight. Local feeder here says it is taking a lot longer to finish those big framed steers. That's costly. And bigger cows just don't seem to last long for me. Not thinking I'd want GJ's 1,000 lb cows though. But then again, I have not tried it.

I agree about the value of smaller cows but how does it make sense to shrink size by buying a little bull? The way I see it you will get the same calf whether you breed a little bull to a big cow or vice versa. It makes so much sense to sell heavy fat cows and buy back little cows.

 

[Silver]

Yep, I figure get those calves down so you can get three or four hundred of 'em on a liner. Imagine the money a fella could make then…..

 

[bird dog]

My thoughts too Silver. You may fool a buyer once but after he see's results from those small frame calves, he won't be a be customer any longer.

Cattle size needs to fit your environment more than anything. I can see where some folks in colder climates need large animals. For me, the ideal weight for my cows seems to be 1100 to 1200. My old Limo bull on these makes nice calves but his heifers generally grow out to large for me to retain.

 

[Muletrack]

I agree about the value of smaller cows but how does it make sense to shrink size by buying a little bull? The way I see it you will get the same calf whether you breed a little bull to a big cow or vice versa. It makes so much sense to sell heavy fat cows and buy back little cows.

Finding "little" cows is next to impossible up north. Also, with Pharo, I'm looking to breed in other genetic benefits — especially grass efficiency, fleshing ability, low maintenance, calving ease, longevity, thickness, muscling, hair coat, fly resistance, disposition, and masculinity. Also I like that his bulls are never fed any grain. Go to PCC Quick Sort and check out out the selection process works for the three sales coming up this month in Texas, Missouri and Colorado http://bullsort.pharocattle.com/?bss=sid64285e0821b69

 

[Dave]

My thoughts too Silver. You may fool a buyer once but after he see's results from those small frame calves, he won't be a be customer any longer.

I have a neighbor that had that happen to him with longhorn/charolais crosses. Calves looked great at 500 pounds but don't preform as well in the feedlot.

 

[TexasRancher]

My family also homesteads, have a big garden, fruit trees, chickens, hogs. We have checked out a few youtube channels mostly for entertainment and because so few people seem to be interested. We followed Justin Rhodes for a while. I actually met him at a homestead conference and was disappointed and stopped following. I checked in with him last week and he has gone crazy, buying equipment and planning new homes. I think its natural to grow crazy when you are immersed in watching your own videos which project an image. Eventually you believe your own lies.

Ain't that the truth..it's sad...people have that tendency (especially with their You Tube success) to forget who they are and where they came from (humble beginnings)...they lose sight of their viewers and alienate people when they become so big with their expensive tools and toys (wealth) and building new barns and pouring 40 truckloads of concrete $$$$...that the regular working man becomes disenchanted.

 

[Muletrack]

I'm looking to raise grass efficient 1200/1300 lb. cows to replace the corn-fed 1800-1900 cows common up here.

 

[StrojanHerefords]

Doerksens up in Alberta have good little cows. https://www.gemstonecattle.com/

 

[Muletrack]

The difference between a 4-frame critter and a 5-frame is two inches between the belly and the ground, which doesn't weigh very much and you can't eat it.

 

[Nesikep]

The difference between a 4-frame critter and a 5-frame is two inches between the belly and the ground, which doesn't weigh very much and you can't eat it.

you're not measuring at the right place!.. Bigger cows have deeper chests, I found that the chest height often doesn't vary much with cow size.. 2" of hip height increase is probably 1/2" chest height increase.
I don't want to breed tiny cows, just a moderate, beefy looking 1400 lb max mature weight that does well on grass, lives a long time and has marketable calves
Nearly my whole herd is from this cow, I think she was about 14 years old here, got 16 calves from her, Kept a few bulls from her daughters and granddaughters too and like them

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

I definitely do not believe in little cattle. Of course, in my environment, they would be a waste of space and time.
I used to have some frame 8 cows, weighing 1500#.
Now I have some frame 5 weighing 1600#.
My cattle do extremely well on feedlots and I finish out some here in 12-13 months to an avg 750# carcass, grade choice.
I totally believe in rotational grazing. My whole farm is small paddocks divided by 1 strand hi-tensile. Depending on time of year, they get all of a quarter of the paddock.
I try to give them enough to last 2- 4 days, using polywire to sub-divide. Generally, in July we do mow weeds or seeded out grass around manure piles.
I am not a believer of these gurus (foo-foo dust). I do read and learn from Univ Research farms.
No matter who you research, listen to, view videos, you need to be able to modify what you hear to what works FOR YOU.

 

[Muletrack]

I'm not real sure about the university anymore. But they are listening to the gurus — no one should close their minds. NDSU at Dickinson R/E Center found some good numbers with Aberdeen Angus a couple of years ago. Is that 1600 lb. cow weaning an 800 lb. calf?

 

[Silver]

I'm not real sure about the university anymore. But they are listening to the gurus — no one should close their minds. NDSU at Dickinson R/E Center found some good numbers with Aberdeen Angus a couple of years ago. Is that 1600 lb. cow weaning an 800 lb. calf?

I have plenty that do.

 

[Walker's Ridge]

I have mixed feeling about Greg Judy. I think he does a great job with his herd. While his techniques are not new, he does a good job explaining why he does what he does. I don't watch much of his videos, but I will watch ones focused on his cattle. I have been tempted to buy a few of his heifers to see what I end up with. I don't have a farm large enough to experiment as much as I'd like to so I stick with what works around here.

I do rotational graze, but that's been the norm here long before I ever heard about Judy. I do make my own hay and grow row crops as well. I do believe that focusing on one thing is probably better financially than being spread over many different things. I don't like to put all of my eggs in one basket though with the way the world is. With small farms we need to make the best of what we have and we certainly do not have neighbors wanting to rent out their ground like Judy seems to have.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

I'm not real sure about the university anymore. But they are listening to the gurus — no one should close their minds. NDSU at Dickinson R/E Center found some good numbers with Aberdeen Angus a couple of years ago. Is that 1600 lb. cow weaning an 800 lb. calf?

Yes, if a male. Closer to 750# if a heifer, but she doesn't sell by the pound. But, most important they wean a steer that I sell for over $1000 (last years prices) to a feedlot or $1500 if he sells as a show steer, or $1950 if sold as a bull. All sold by October as weaned calves. I don't need to mention my heifers because they are unfair to compare. But, a feedlot steer is a feedlot steer, no matter what the pedigree or breeder reputation.

 

[Ebenezer]

I'm not real sure about the university anymore. But they are listening to the gurus — no one should close their minds. NDSU at Dickinson R/E Center found some good numbers with Aberdeen Angus a couple of years ago. Is that 1600 lb. cow weaning an 800 lb. calf?

So the gurus are totally open minded and everyone else is not? Short calves here are 60 cents a pound. Decent framed calves are 2.44 a pound. Stick that in a calculation meant to show me that a lot of little cows make me money.

 

[Silver]

To be fair, Muletrack did say 1200-1300 lb cows and that can be a productive size if managed well. A 1300 lb cow isn't small by my way of thinking.

 

[50/50Farms]

In my neck of the woods, super heavy cows aren't worth it.

 

[Stocker Steve]

I agree about the value of smaller cows but how does it make sense to shrink size by buying a little bull? The way I see it you will get the same calf whether you breed a little bull to a big cow or vice versa. It makes so much sense to sell heavy fat cows and buy back little cows.

In the northern plains - - the most popular cows at the sales barn beauty contest are tall fat black TMR fed 1500 to 1650 pounders. The profitability of these cows would benefit from less frame, but, the only way to make paying more for a "smaller" framed bull pencil out in the feedlot world is to put a premium on the resulting retained heifers. Thicker and "smaller" framed heifers do command a premium if you market them correctly.

Yes, the faster and easier path to profit is to buy 4 frame 1,300# red wf cows and put a cheap terminal black bull on them.

 

[dave_shelby]

Walkers Ridge brings up a good point I have heard many times on this forum. Its difficult to find land to rent, contrary to Greg and other "gurus" recommendation. Land owners choose well-established, bigger, well-known names.

Now I know another grazier who lives up by rich folks and he has know issues finding land but it aligns with their philosophy and desires to keep the land pretty.