If I buy Char cross stockers at 450-500 lb and put them on grass for 6 months what would be the average lbs gained for a steer? What would be the average lbs gained for a hefier? They would be on a good mix of clover and grasses with minerals and fresh water but no grain.
Wt. gain on stockers.??
- Thread starter poiu
- Start date
Help Support CattleToday:
Bez>
Well-known member
A huge amount of info is truly needed here - but strictly grass and average genetics - most herds - are in the 2 - 2.5 ppd category.
I figure you will have some heifers and some steers do better - and I do at home. I figure you will have some do worse - and I do at home.
Play it safe and use 2.0 pounds per day for your pencil and anything above that is gravy. Never do the number crunching with the gain numbers on the high end - use average to slightly below - that way you do not get slaughtered when you lose three animals to sickness and the grass dries up and you have to bring in feed and then you hold on for three months too long because you just KNOW the price will be higher next week.
I got those awards - never again. Buy - pencil whip poor numbers - plan on a few deads just because - plan a sell date AND SELL ON THAT DATE. Never keep them and buy in feed - sell at a small loss - beats the heck out of a big loss.
Some will do better and some will do worse. So work the average.
Less input the better.
Some years youwill do well. Some years you will lose. Anyone tells you they always make money - walk away - they are full of it.
Have fun - its better than the casino and probably healthier!
Regards
Bez>
I figure you will have some heifers and some steers do better - and I do at home. I figure you will have some do worse - and I do at home.
Play it safe and use 2.0 pounds per day for your pencil and anything above that is gravy. Never do the number crunching with the gain numbers on the high end - use average to slightly below - that way you do not get slaughtered when you lose three animals to sickness and the grass dries up and you have to bring in feed and then you hold on for three months too long because you just KNOW the price will be higher next week.
I got those awards - never again. Buy - pencil whip poor numbers - plan on a few deads just because - plan a sell date AND SELL ON THAT DATE. Never keep them and buy in feed - sell at a small loss - beats the heck out of a big loss.
Some will do better and some will do worse. So work the average.
Less input the better.
Some years youwill do well. Some years you will lose. Anyone tells you they always make money - walk away - they are full of it.
Have fun - its better than the casino and probably healthier!
Regards
Bez>
Thank you for the responce.
So if my calulations are right they should gain 368 lbs.
If I buy at 1.20lb for a 500lb stocker costing me $600.00 then sell at .95lb I make 224.60 an animal. Which means I need 31 stockers to reach my goal of 7000.00 a summer.
How many acres would you need to run 31 head of stockers?
How old is your average 500lb stocker?
So if my calulations are right they should gain 368 lbs.
If I buy at 1.20lb for a 500lb stocker costing me $600.00 then sell at .95lb I make 224.60 an animal. Which means I need 31 stockers to reach my goal of 7000.00 a summer.
How many acres would you need to run 31 head of stockers?
How old is your average 500lb stocker?
bigbull338
Well-known member
you would want atlest 40acs to run them on maybe a tad more.a 5 weight steer is about 8 or 9 months old.poiu":iez0cwc4 said:
Bez>
Well-known member
poiu":3bhg13yh said:
You are showing your greed and not your knowledge.
Step back a bit please.
Where do you live?
What is the ground like?
How much grass you have available?
What type of handling system you have in place?
What vaccination protocol you planning to run?
What shape are the fences in?
500 pounders are straight off the cow - in my case around 200 days after calving - but that means nothing - what is the breed, the genetics and so on?
You planning to guarantee the selling price?
How much have you factored in for trouble? 10%? 20%?
Hauling?
Veterinarian?
Miscellaneous costs - fence repair, fuel, mineral, etc.
Lots more questions - and not likely we can answer them all here and now. But you might want to chat with your county agent, a couple of mentors and certainly go and look up some of my writings on buying cattle. They are not guaranteed to keep you out of trouble - but it will at least give you the chance to think about things other than the income.
NEVER COUNT YOUR MONEY WHILE YOU ARE PLAYING THE GAME!!
Count it after you are done and all the cheques and bills have cleared. Period.
Bez>
bigbull338":38uwq0v3 said:
40acs is less then I thought. I have 80acs of good pasture and then 200acs of mixed woods and rough pasture avalible so they should have plenty and then some.
$7000.00 in 6 months is not a bad return on a 18,600.00 investment.
bgm
Well-known member
The amount of land you'll need varies greatly depending on where you are. You need to check with someone in your area about stocking rates. Don't know about your state, but here the County Extension Services people will answer most any question you have. If you don't have them, talk to a local rancher, he can make a better guess that I can from here.
Good Luck
Good Luck
poiu":3b99tmow said:
Depends on what part of the country your in and what your summers are like. Here in Indiana the spring/early summer flush gets so far ahead of the calves that you cant hardly see them. The grass will go to seed which slows growth afterwards. You can stock double from April to July as you can from July to September here. Where are you?
Where do you live? - Manitoba
What is the ground like? dark, fertile
How much grass you have available? - 80acs good pasture 200acs mixed woods and rough pasture
What type of handling system you have in place? - steel bar working pens
What vaccination protocol you planning to run? none.
What shape are the fences in? new three strand barbed wire
500 pounders are straight off the cow - in my case around 200 days after calving - but that means nothing - what is the breed, the genetics and so on?
- Char cross Red Angus or Char cross saler and it looks like they will be about 6-7 months
You planning to guarantee the selling price? I wish!
How much have you factored in for trouble? 10%? 20%? - I took your advise and went with the higher average when buying 1.20lb and the lower average when selling .95lb
Hauling? - not a problem just going to drive them to the sale barn with my horse.
Veterinarian? don,t need one if a calf gets so sick I can not help it myself then I will shoot it.
Miscellaneous costs - fence repair, fuel, mineral, etc. looks like I better get another 5 or so to cover some of the extra cost eh!
Count it after you are done and all the cheques and bills have cleared. Period. - good advice!
What is the ground like? dark, fertile
How much grass you have available? - 80acs good pasture 200acs mixed woods and rough pasture
What type of handling system you have in place? - steel bar working pens
What vaccination protocol you planning to run? none.
What shape are the fences in? new three strand barbed wire
500 pounders are straight off the cow - in my case around 200 days after calving - but that means nothing - what is the breed, the genetics and so on?
- Char cross Red Angus or Char cross saler and it looks like they will be about 6-7 months
You planning to guarantee the selling price? I wish!
How much have you factored in for trouble? 10%? 20%? - I took your advise and went with the higher average when buying 1.20lb and the lower average when selling .95lb
Hauling? - not a problem just going to drive them to the sale barn with my horse.
Veterinarian? don,t need one if a calf gets so sick I can not help it myself then I will shoot it.
Miscellaneous costs - fence repair, fuel, mineral, etc. looks like I better get another 5 or so to cover some of the extra cost eh!
Count it after you are done and all the cheques and bills have cleared. Period. - good advice!
bgm
Well-known member
Sorry, Bad plan. Vaccinations are cheap insurance against losing the whole lot or costing you more in vet bills that you could possibly make. This is one place in my opinion you don't want to cut costs.
Bama
Well-known member
poiu":1qy18y32 said:
Sorry to say I'm afraid your counting way more money up front than you will get on the back end. $224.60 is a lot to make off of each one of them. After you count all expenses it wont be nowhere near that. Don't get me wrong I'm not trying to discourage you. I do this regularly and have a lot of years experience doing it. All of them won't gain 2 pounds a day some will be a lot closer to 1 than 2. If you don't vac them you will lose several, If you do you still may lose a few. If your goal is to make $7000 I would suggest you double your number to 62 and thats still a risk. A lot of people try this and wind up losing money. I wish you the best of luck. By the way I'm talking U.S. dollars.
bgm
Well-known member
poiu":rkvkiszh said:
Unless I personally knew and trusted the person I was buying them from and he told me what vaccinations they had, I would treat them like they had not had any. What people's opinions constitutes a full set of vaccinations vary too much. For instance my grandfather raised cattle his whole life and when he gave them vaccinations, all they ever got was blackleg. It's your risk.
Good luck
NOPLCLKNEB
Member
I have been running stockers on a small scale just like you want to do for the last 5 years and have learned a lot. Let me tell you!!!
1. Most important, vacine. Your going to invest around $17000 dollars on these stockers, would you buy a car for $17000 and not buy insurance for it? Your only insurance for these stockers is vacine and good fences.
2. Fences, these stockers are going to be wild, some may not be weaned, if there is a way to get out they will.
3. I'm in Nebraska, and have good grass, I've averaged 1.6 lb gain per day last five years. Some averaged 2.5 some averaged .9.
4. Buy light. Less than 500 lb. My expericence is a 425 lb bought the same day as a 550 lb steer will weigh about the same in 5 months. Don't know why other than a 425 lb steer grows more? Just my expericence.
5. Fly control. This adds weight very cheaply.
6. Little bit of corn every other day. I'm talking little bit. 5 gallon bucket per 15 head. I do this cause it makes them much tamer and easier to catch when, and I say when they get out. Corn is very expensive, but to me cheaper than chasing them or losing them.
7. Keep them locked up in corrall for the 1st week. This will get the ones that aren't weaned to settle down, and most of your sickness is going to happen in that first week and is way easier to treat if you already have them caught and ready to treat them in your head gate.
8. Head gate. Gotta have one. Don't need a $3000 head/gate/squeeze chute, but I do think you need a head gate to treat the cattle yourself.
9. I would be very carefull hearding them to market. They will still be on the wild side.
I'm not sure why stockers are so wild, I think most of it has to do the way they are treated at the sale barn before you buy them. They go thru alot stess in a couple days.
1. Most important, vacine. Your going to invest around $17000 dollars on these stockers, would you buy a car for $17000 and not buy insurance for it? Your only insurance for these stockers is vacine and good fences.
2. Fences, these stockers are going to be wild, some may not be weaned, if there is a way to get out they will.
3. I'm in Nebraska, and have good grass, I've averaged 1.6 lb gain per day last five years. Some averaged 2.5 some averaged .9.
4. Buy light. Less than 500 lb. My expericence is a 425 lb bought the same day as a 550 lb steer will weigh about the same in 5 months. Don't know why other than a 425 lb steer grows more? Just my expericence.
5. Fly control. This adds weight very cheaply.
6. Little bit of corn every other day. I'm talking little bit. 5 gallon bucket per 15 head. I do this cause it makes them much tamer and easier to catch when, and I say when they get out. Corn is very expensive, but to me cheaper than chasing them or losing them.
7. Keep them locked up in corrall for the 1st week. This will get the ones that aren't weaned to settle down, and most of your sickness is going to happen in that first week and is way easier to treat if you already have them caught and ready to treat them in your head gate.
8. Head gate. Gotta have one. Don't need a $3000 head/gate/squeeze chute, but I do think you need a head gate to treat the cattle yourself.
9. I would be very carefull hearding them to market. They will still be on the wild side.
I'm not sure why stockers are so wild, I think most of it has to do the way they are treated at the sale barn before you buy them. They go thru alot stess in a couple days.
NOPLCLKNEB":34j6dsos said:
Some could be due to compensatory gain. The smaller calf was held back on feed and/or lost alot in transit. When they get access to good feed they gain faster.
Another advantage of buying light is the percentage of weight they gain compared to the pounds you had to buy. Lets say you had two steers that you bought at the same time, one weighed 400 lbs and the other weighed 600 lbs. 2 lbs ADG over 150 days would be 300 lbs. 300 lbs on a 600 lb stocker is a 50% gain but 300 lbs on a 400 lb stocker is a 75% gain. There will be a price difference when buying, the 400 lb calf will probably cost more per lb but less in total than the 600 lb calf. On the flip side when selling a 700 lb calf is going to bring more per lb than a 900 lb feeder. So basically you end up getting more per lb of gain on the lighter calf. The down sides to this are that the lighter calves could have more health and weaning issues, might not utilize forage efficiently at first, might be small for their age (runt, poor genetics, etc, could translate to poor ADG for you) so buy carefully.
Stocker Steve
Well-known member
SCRUBS620":1k0ueyc7 said:
- The price break point here is about 425 pounds. The lighter calves are a better buy for backgrounding as long as you don't get stunted or chronic cattle...
- You should supplement if you are turning beef cattle less than 500#, or Holstein less than 600#, out onto grass
- If you are buying singles and small groups you are going to get some wild ones who will not settle in. If they run full tilt into corral panels, or try to take you after you open the head gate, that is usually a sign you may need to resell them to a feedlot.
What do you think of these angus cross steers?
http://cattletoday.com/photos/showphoto ... puser=4073
http://cattletoday.com/photos/showphoto ... puser=4073
