Winter calvers inhumane

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Jeanne - Simme Valley":3oajyf7h said:
Calving in the winter does not mean feeding grain.

Exactly. My breeding cattle don't get a stitch of grain, and they breed back on 60 days and are probably a little too fat going into calving season. With good forage, all you need is a mineral to balance out any shortfalls.

I'm even trying a grain free trial on my feeders this year. I'm liking the reduced expenses, but not real wild about the weight gain.

Rod
 
Why even bother listening to Pharo anymore?

10 years ago, he had some good points, but any smart rancher was already doing what he was doing in terms of cost-accounting.

He's doing nothing new.

Heck a buddy of mine gets his messages.

He said Kit has two big tractors and his son has a payloader. Used them to dig out the cows. Like anybody in REAL Winter country worries about digging out cows. Got themselves a taste of what Winter is really like in the North, not his area.


So much for being as low-input as he likes to make everybody think he is. Runs around preaching about not having any iron around, but he has as much as most ranchers do.

mtnman
 
Good to hear you speak Mntmn. Missed you.


Who the heck feeds their beef cows corn? That is not a recipe for profit with even $2 corn. :)
 
Definately good to hear from Mountain Man. Makes us all think, and has good points!
 
Jeanne - Simme Valley":3ozw6wiy said:
Another blanket statement
feeding a cow grain ect. through winter and into the first couple months of postpartum means you are losing money meant for your pocket!
Calving in the winter does not mean feeding grain. I have been calving late Jan thru late March for many years, without feeding COWS grain or creep feeding calves, and getting them bred back for a 60 day calving season each year. Calves are old enough to wean in September which gives the cows enough time on grass to get into great condition for winter.
Different managements for different people/locations.

You know me better then to think I am on the grain feeding your cows wagon!

I am refuring to the practices I see around me and what your average winter calver does. If you find that your cows milk top notch after a winter of hay and do not lose to much BCS then more power to you and keep it up!!
 
I got this in the Hereford Enews email. It is Dr Hall writing about winter calving increasing calving difficulties....

"John Hall, Virginia Tech Department of Animal & Poultry Science

No sooner did I mention that the winter has been warmer, yet still stressful, than we were hit with almost 30 days of below average temperatures. Producers have often speculated that calves are bigger after cold winters. Is this really true? Often it is hard to compare one year to the next as bulls and nutrition change, which can affect calf birth weight. However, several studies indicate that exposure of dams to cold conditions can result in increased birth weights of offspring.

The research
Some of the early work in this area was with sheep. Shearing ewes before they lamb is a common practice to reduce soiling of wool, make it easier for lambs to nurse and reduce space needed in lambing sheds. Researchers have noted that lambs from winter-shorn ewes are heavier at birth and are more vigorous than lambs from unshorn ewes.

Properly conducted research on weather effects on birth weight in cattle is limited. However, in the 1990s researchers from Nebraska conducted a study on birth weight and dystocia as affected by winter weather. For six years, data was collected from March-calving heifers of similar breeding that were all bred AI to the same calving-ease Angus bull. The research group kept track of average and wind chill temperatures from December-February of each year. All calves were weighed and any heifers requiring assistance were noted. Birth weights were heaviest and calving difficulty greater in the coldest years. Researchers found almost a 1:1 relationship between decrease in average temperature and increase in calf birth weight. For every 1-degree (Fahrenheit) drop in average or wind chill temperature there was roughly a 1-lb. increase in calf birth weight.

One of the years did not seem to fit. The winter of '95-'96 was relatively warm, but calf weights and dystocia increased. When researchers reviewed the weather data, they found that January of '96 was much colder than average. Therefore, they concluded that this one month in late gestation was sufficient enough to affect birth weight.

Why does birth weight increase?
One theory behind increased birth weights of offspring from cold-exposed dams relates to blood flow. It is well established that when exposed to extremely cold temperatures, mammals shift blood flow from extremities and skin to major internal organs. This survival mechanism ensures that essential organs (brain, heart, liver) continue to function normally even in cold weather. As a result of this shift in blood flow, there may be greater blood flow and nutrients reaching the fetus. However, short-term cold exposure in women has actually been shown to decrease blood flow to the fetus.

Another theory is that voluntary feed intake is increased in dams exposed to cold. While ruminants can compensate to some extent by increasing intake during cold weather, this probably does not explain all the increase in birth weight.

More recently, several groups have found metabolic changes in cold-stressed ewes. These metabolic changes result in increased availability of glucose, IGF-I and IGF-II to the fetus. Glucose and the two insulin-like growth factors (IGF) are important regulators of fetal growth. Some studies also indicate an increase in brown adipose tissue, the fat that is used in the first days of life to produce heat, in newborns. Increased size, enhanced energy availability and greater brown adipose tissue are positively correlated to newborn calf survival during cold weather.

Management of heavier calves
For mature cows, the increase in birth weight of 5-8 lb. caused by cold weather results in little increase in dystocia. However, producers should be aware of increased birth weights and the potential for problems. If extremely large birth weights occur, then cows should be checked more often.

First-calf heifers will need more observation and close attention this calving season. Producers should be prepared to check animals or render assistance if heifers appear to be struggling or have been in Stage 2 labor (hard pushing) for 30-45 minutes. Make sure that heifers are well-dilated and be sure the calf is of deliverable size. Don't be afraid to call the veterinarian if needed; the value of a live calf is worth the vet call. But remember, if you have worked half the night trying to pull the calf, don't expect the vet to perform a miracle and deliver a live calf — call early.

Under no circumstances should producers reduce feed levels or amount of energy in late-gestation diets in an attempt to reduce calf birth weight. Reducing energy intake will cause weak calves and thin cows. In addition, thin cows will have poor conception rates in the following breeding season."

I doubt this will change ANYBODY's opinions one way or another; but it is food for thought.
 
I'm fairly new to the cattle buisness but I agree 110% with Bruno. I live in ne texas and I know it is not inhumane here Now in north dakota? well I dont live there but climate has a lot to do with it and there are regions like western washington where there basically is no winter that is hard on animals... I go by what my Daddy taught me,
he said "dont beleive anything ya hear and only half of what ya see then apply that information carefully to your given situation and ya got a 50 / 50 chance of succeding"
 

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