Winter calvers inhumane

[ALACOWMAN]

I've heard some people say it's inhumane to put calves in a lot and feed them just to slaughter them :roll:. Eccentric!

The statement being discussed now falls into the same category :roll: Eccentric![/quote well i dont agree with the much of what he says. and i wouldnt use the word inhumane either. but theirs folk posting on here all the time about finding new borns nearly frozen and taken them in the house and thaw'in em out or sick, weakly calves and thin momas. when another month or too would have made a big difference

 

[skcatlman]

The blanket statement is based on what. If you don't have any facilities and calve in the middle of a field with 2 feet of snow @ -30 in jan. then i agree. But i start calving in mid jan and am basically done by mid mar to early april with a few stragglers. Simple calving barn with heat exchanger and dehumidifier and heater. when needed I an assist is needed i work in my t shirt and jeans, even with it being -25 outside. Then move to unheated barn once calves are dry , sucked up and doing well usally at 2 days old when they can themal regulate. There for a day or 2 depending on wether conditions out side and need for other newborns. If good to go sent out to newborn pens which have shelters and calf shelters for them to hide in lots of bedding out of wind and most are good but the odd calf will go out in the wind if a storm comes up and get it's ears tipped. Is it inhumane to calve on pasture where you might not find a cow that needs assistance, bugs bothering a newborn and it's mother. Predators taking the occaisional calf or cow, is that inhumane? Calf being born in a rain storm that lasts 3 days is that inhumane? or in 40 degree heat that lasts weeks. Perspective is needed when making statements.

 

[ALACOWMAN]

The blanket statement is based on what. If you don't have any facilities and calve in the middle of a field with 2 feet of snow @ -30 in jan. then i agree. But i start calving in mid jan and am basically done by mid mar to early april with a few stragglers. Simple calving barn with heat exchanger and dehumidifier and heater. when needed I an assist is needed i work in my t shirt and jeans, even with it being -25 outside. Then move to unheated barn once calves are dry , sucked up and doing well usally at 2 days old when they can themal regulate. There for a day or 2 depending on wether conditions out side and need for other newborns. If good to go sent out to newborn pens which have shelters and calf shelters for them to hide in lots of bedding out of wind and most are good but the odd calf will go out in the wind if a storm comes up and get it's ears tipped. Is it inhumane to calve on pasture where you might not find a cow that needs assistance, bugs bothering a newborn and it's mother. Predators taking the occaisional calf or cow, is that inhumane? Calf being born in a rain storm that lasts 3 days is that inhumane? or in 40 degree heat that lasts weeks. Perspective is needed when making statements.

aint many folks that put that much effort or have a game plan for winter calves. i started calving out last week myself and will be done by the end of march.

 

[randiliana]

I have to wonder, after all I have seen new calves die in the summer due to over heating. So I really don't think it is any more inhumane calving in the summer or winter. One thing about winter is you can move them to a warmer place. It is pretty hard to move them to a cooler place in the summer (short of bringing them in the house). What IS inhumane is when people don't check on the cattle often enough. We are out every 3 hours, more often if we have one calving or if it is exceptionally cold. Plus, we have about 6 months of cold and snow. If I want good sized calves to sell when we prefer to sell I guess we will have to keep working with the system we have.

 

[ALACOWMAN]

I have to wonder, after all I have seen new calves die in the summer due to over heating. So I really don't think it is any more inhumane calving in the summer or winter. One thing about winter is you can move them to a warmer place. It is pretty hard to move them to a cooler place in the summer (short of bringing them in the house). What IS inhumane is when people don't check on the cattle often enough. We are out every 3 hours, more often if we have one calving or if it is exceptionally cold. Plus, we have about 6 months of cold and snow. If I want good sized calves to sell when we prefer to sell I guess we will have to keep working with the system we have.

same thing here. infact in the south its harder on them to calve in summer.than winter. the forage quality, heat, flys,

 

[skcatlman]

ALA if you calf in winter in canada either you plan or fail. I make my living off the cowherd so i betterplan well or i will be working in an office at a desk in the city.

 

[ALACOWMAN]

ALA if you calf in winter in canada either you plan or fail. I make my living off the cowherd so i betterplan well or i will be working in an office at a desk in the city.

exactly you have a game plan for winter calving. thanks to two ex wives i got a desk job. planned on things being a little different by now. but a calving season is a must for folks like me. get it done and overwith cause i cant be there during the day. so i check in the morning and have my son keep tabs on one thats ready to calve. and keep me informed of her progress. my feeding in the evenings gives me alot of daytime calving which another plus

 

[dun]

KP is an advocate of calving by the seasons of nature. Calve when the grass is growing so the cow can raise a calf without supplement or hay.

dun

 

[backhoeboogie]

How about all those Angus haveing calves in the southern summers?

Now that's inhumane. Poor cows pant like dogs in the day and can't produce much milk for the babies. They'd be better off calving in the dead of winter instead of the summer.

Caustic is dead on.

 

[IL Rancher]

I don'y know.. It was pretty inhumane to this human to be calving last winter.. I mean, I was cold.. brrr, should treat myself better than that.... The problem with all of the answers is so much depends. I won't be calving in January or Feb again as I simply do not have the facilities to do it right. March gets a bit too mudy so April is what we aim for which is right about the time grass starts growing. Is it perfect? Nope.. No matter what time you calf there are going to be some who say you should do it different, do what works for your place and for your strengths in management... I personally can't think of a perfect month up here to calf, be it to cold, to hot, to wet or to dry something always is going to be wrong... And thats without bringing rebreeding and cow condition post partuation into the equation.

 

[mtncows]

Who is Kit Pharho?

 

[aplusmnt]

We had some born on snow for the first time this year, only inhumane thing I could see in it was me having to spend so much time out in below freezing weather checking heifers. Cows seemed not to mind.

 

[KMacGinley]

Who is Kit Pharho?

http://www.pharocattle.com

 

[KMacGinley]

Kit is producing cattle that he claims can survive on forage only and don't need grain due to their genetics. He touts his genetics as being frame 4 or less, the fact is that most of his cattle are Ohlde bred and the genetics aren't frame 4, so some people say that they have been starved down to that frame. Other people are 100% behind him and think that he is the wave of the future.

 

[SPRINGER FARMS MURRAY GRE]

Kit Pharo said in his newsletter that Winter calvers were inhumane to their Cows and calves. What do you all think?

Here is my politically correct reply to Mr. Pharo Eat S--- and bark at the moon. Anyone that makes such a blanket statement doesn't know cow crap from wild honey. There are to many operating enviroments in the USA to make such a statement.

Amen to that CB!! ;-)

 

[Saltydawg]

I avoid January and Febuary calving.

I live in the snowbelt of western NY and we just get too much snow.
Late March is when I like to see the first calves arriving. It's still cold but snowfall on the ground has usually subsided enough for the little guys to get around.

 

[Angus Guy]

If I start on Pharo I'll need my son the paramedic to come revive me. That is just plain absurd.

 

[KMacGinley]

Go ahead, and start, I'll hold the defibrilator.

 

[VanC]

I disagree I calve november-february and it has no ill effects on my calves. This way they are weaned in plenty of time to hit the fall markets and bring me more money.

Aren't prices usually higher in the spring?

 

[Ryder]

Breathe deeply and think of waterfalls between sentences. Now what were you going to say, AG?