wildebeast MCF found in texas cattle

[Anonymous]

Prices should be fairly cheap but what kind of risks are involved in bringing these cattle into your operation? How trusting can you be that the animals you purchase won't have a negative impact on your own business?

Angus I don't know what the incubation period is for the disease but since any cattle exposed will die from the disease AND it cannot be transferred from cow to cow the herd should be clean by sale time and should have nothing but a positive impact on your herd. Guess I'm the eternal optimist but see it as the opportunity of a lifetime.

Wrong it can be passed from dam to calf. So it can come in to your herd through the dam. Even though they say it cannot be passed cow to cow through snot there will always be the skeptics and the possibilities of later consequenses.

 

[TexasBred]

Prices should be fairly cheap but what kind of risks are involved in bringing these cattle into your operation? How trusting can you be that the animals you purchase won't have a negative impact on your own business?

Angus I don't know what the incubation period is for the disease but since any cattle exposed will die from the disease AND it cannot be transferred from cow to cow the herd should be clean by sale time and should have nothing but a positive impact on your herd. Guess I'm the eternal optimist but see it as the opportunity of a lifetime.

Wrong it can be passed from dam to calf. So it can come in to your herd through the dam. Even though they say it cannot be passed cow to cow through snot there will always be the skeptics and the possibilities of later consequenses.

IF, they live to the point of giving birth that same cow can transfer it to her calf, but neither can transmit it to another cow. USDA has cleared all the cattle for sale and interstate transport and since we accept USDA for everything else is there really a reason to doubt them on this?

 

[TexasBred]

if they say it doesnt transfer from cow to cow then how did 6 head and possibly more wind up with it?

Direct contact with the wildebeast in a group of heifers in one pasture adjacent to the high fence hunting operation :!: :!: :!: The others have been tested and tested negative.

 

[TexasBred]

Well they are keeping all their recip cattle (several hundred) and their spring calves as well as hundreds of embryos, all the bulls and worlds of semen. They can purchase enough recip cows to be back in the thousands of head of registered brangus, angus and charolais in a short time. Rebuilding the reputation will take a while but will happen if that's what they want to do.

 

[Brandonm22]

IF, they live to the point of giving birth that same cow can transfer it to her calf, but neither can transmit it to another cow. USDA has cleared all the cattle for sale and interstate transport and since we accept USDA for everything else is there really a reason to doubt them on this?

SINCE when did we start trusting USDA???? :shock:

Their educated best guess is that there is no risk; but USDA let them import these wildebeasts from Africa in the first place and thought then that there was no risk from that either.

 

[Brandonm22]

Wrong it can be passed from dam to calf. So it can come in to your herd through the dam. Even though they say it cannot be passed cow to cow through snot there will always be the skeptics and the possibilities of later consequenses.

I am at a loss too explain how they have come up with the idea that it can spread from Wildebeast too cattle just by nose to nose contact through a fence; but that if I had two or three of those cattle in MY herd it couldn't be transmitted from cow too cow. I am not challenging the vets; BUT that is a strange disease if THAT is correct.

 

[Angus In Texas]

Wrong it can be passed from dam to calf. So it can come in to your herd through the dam. Even though they say it cannot be passed cow to cow through snot there will always be the skeptics and the possibilities of later consequenses.

I am at a loss too explain how they have come up with the idea that it can spread from Wildebeast too cattle just by nose to nose contact through a fence; but that if I had two or three of those cattle in MY herd it couldn't be transmitted from cow too cow. I am not challenging the vets; BUT that is a strange disease if THAT is correct.

I've been a little leary of this as well. I just don't know what to make of the whole situation. Ya'll mention 6 head testing positive but I had heard they euthanized over 800 heifers.

 

[TexasBred]

IF, they live to the point of giving birth that same cow can transfer it to her calf, but neither can transmit it to another cow. USDA has cleared all the cattle for sale and interstate transport and since we accept USDA for everything else is there really a reason to doubt them on this?

SINCE when did we start trusting USDA???? :shock:

Their educated best guess is that there is no risk; but USDA let them import these wildebeasts from Africa in the first place and thought then that there was no risk from that either.

You trust USDA everday...(that little stamp on all that food and stuff you buy). Most times all it means is that the box has been checked for correct weight as stated. But isn't brucellosis, TB and other things about the same thing....(we've tested...none tested positive, thus there is no more.)? All I know is that cattle suspected of even being exposed are still quarantined....all others are being sold. As for USDA and import of wildebeast, I dont' know...I did find the following agencies listed as being involved with importation of animals from other countries. U.S. Customs and Border Protection ; the Department of Agriculture's Animal and Plant Health Inspection Service ; the U.S. Public Health Service ; the U.S. Food and Drug Administration ; and the National Marine Fisheries Service . YOU might also have to contact your state fish and wildlife agency as to state requirements and restrictions. You can probalby add the department of homeland security to that now.

As for how the cattle can get it from wildebeast I'd suggest if you haven't already, then go read about the disease. This very thing is discussed.... I've heard absolutely nothing about 800 head being put down but even if they were that should put at end to it right there since there was only one pasture involved. 400 acres out of 11,000 acres.

 

[TexasBred]

Transmission

The MCF virus in wildebeest, hartebeest, and topi is largely cell-associated in adult animals and hence rarely transmissible. However, neonatal wildebeests have been found to shed cell-free MCF virus in nasal and ocular secretions and in feces. Cell-free MCFV has also been demonstrated in nasal secretions of captive adult wildebeests after stress or administration of corticosteroids. Transmission to cattle or other susceptible species may occur by inhalation of cell-free virus in infectious aerosol droplets, ingestion of feed or water contaminated with infectious secretions or feces, or possibly mechanically by arthropods. Masai herdsmen believed cattle acquire MCF by contact with wildebeest placentas or birth hair of neonates. Recent studies have failed to demonstrate infective MCFV in fetal fluids or placentas of wildebeest probably owing to the rapid inactivation of virus by sunlight. The mode of transmission of sheep-associated MCF remains unknown, although relatively close contact between cattle and sheep, especially lambing ewes, is believed necessary. MCF-affected cattle appear to shed only cell-associated virus, and thus cattle-to-cattle transmission is thought to be rare or nonexistent, although there are documented instances where this has occurred.

 

[Angus In Texas]

MCF-affected cattle appear to shed only cell-associated virus, and thus cattle-to-cattle transmission is thought to be rare or nonexistent, although there are documented instances where this has occurred.

Sorry.... I read the article but I guess for some reason I missed this little tidbit of info. And still doesn't sound to assuring in the "appear to shed"

 

[TexasBred]

MCF-affected cattle appear to shed only cell-associated virus, and thus cattle-to-cattle transmission is thought to be rare or nonexistent, although there are documented instances where this has occurred.

Sorry.... I read the article but I guess for some reason I missed this little tidbit of info. And still doesn't sound to assuring in the "appear to shed"

Angus I know what you mean. But to me it's not unlike my sister in law who 40 years ago was diagnosed with full blown tuberculosis and had one lung removed....my brother and both the boys have also always tested positive meaning they are carriers..however, none have TB....somewhere farther up in this article it basically said that ALL wildebeast are carriers. I just still think there were very few animals exposed and it does appear that it would have to be direct contact since it also says the virus is inactivated by sunlight.

Just seems that Camp Cooley would be exposed to too much liability to knowingly sell a product that could destroy other herds. Not their way of operating.

 

[TexasBred]

If they are going out of business and just keeping commercial cattle and a hunting ranch then why should they care?

Don't think they said they were going out of business....only dispersing the registered cattle. They still have over 1700 head of commercial recip cattle with registered spring calves on the ground or due soon. That in itself it a pretty good "jump start" to a rebuilding program if that's what they plan to do. Additionally they are keeping all the bulls, embryoes and semen (they also own Ultimate Genetics) which could number many many hundreds if not thousands.

The place also has some very high producing gas wells all over that 11,000 acres so I don't think money is a big problem.

 

[Angus In Texas]

If they are going out of business and just keeping commercial cattle and a hunting ranch then why should they care?

Ummmmmm maybe morals, I dont know

 

[TexasBred]

If they are going out of business and just keeping commercial cattle and a hunting ranch then why should they care?

Ummmmmm maybe morals, I dont know

baxter if you've ever dealt with CCR then you know they definitely care. Even tho they are huge one of their goals is to keep the small operator profitable. Of course this makes them money as well but has helped a lot of small operators. At their last sale they had 20 ranches consign registered cattle and about a dozen consign commercial cattle. The sold just as well as the CCR cattle. Then they have the cooperators program which will bring you in big money for your bulls. You can sit down and talk to folks from the top down at anytime no matter how small you are. It's a real "class act". So sorry they have to take this "black eye".

 

[Brandonm22]

You trust USDA everday...

Uh......I don't trust U.S. gov, the local police, the media, the electorate, lawyers, my fellow Church members, or most of my neighbors any more than I trust a tornado. We are fine until I accidentally get in their way for any reason.

That said, I don't believe that USDA has any reason to lie about this or to cover anything up. I have seen enough disease outbreaks up close to know however that every outbreak ain't exactly like what it reads like in the text book. IF WE CAN BELIEVE the people at Camp Cooley the ONLY contact these heifers had with the wildebeasts was casual contact through a fence row. Just because we have never documented cattle shedding this disease does not mean that it can't ever happen. Pathogens have the ability too mutate and change. (see bird flu). Everybody is saying that the animals have tested negative. Negative doesn't always mean that they weren't exposed; it just means that they aren't testing positive for the disease. Since this seems to be a problem in Africa, why weren't the wildebeasts tested for this during the import process??? OR did they test "negative" too? I am not telling anybody that there is any risk here; but I am not comfortable saying that there isn't any risk here either.

 

[TexasBred]

Brandon..don't fool yourself....you trust something or somebody everytime you flex a muscle. False positives are always more common than false negatives. Maybe they were exposed..what determines exposure? Touching...smelling....a mile away with a brisk breeze?? Brandon there is no failsafe situation with diseases.Those we thought we wiped out ages ago pop up. Vaccines that worked last year don't work this year. Sure pathogens mutate. Go read about the disease. It says nearly all wildebeast test positive. Does that mean they are contagious?????? Absolutely not. No more than having herpes makes someone a "touch me not" or you can't hug someone that is HIV positive. You said you've witnessed all these diseases...are have you just read the book???

I'm sure the animals were quarantined and tested before they ever hit the mainland. (See post above about various agencies that police this). Many other zoo animals will test positive for the very same disease right now..do they kill them..no, they just don't allow them to co-mingle with other animals.

You don't want any of the cows...fine don't buy them. You wanna eat that steak?? Go ahead. It's yours. Hope it's sterile, no disease in it and no meds in it. Leave it "rare". It will be ok..."trust me". :tiphat:

 

[Brandonm22]

You said you've witnessed all these diseases...are have you just read the book???

Trust me. When I was with Carroll's Foods (now a small part of Murphy Brown, a subsidiary of Smithfield) wherever I was standing seemed like was the middle of some new disease disaster. Mystery Swine Disease (M.S.D.), P.R.R.S (eventually they reached the conclusion that P.R.R.S., S.R.R.S., and M.S.D. were all the same disease though the vets claimed we had two different strains.......(and I was once on a 2,400 sow that had BOTH), E. Coli scours, E. Coli scours made worse by P.R.R.S., real bad streptococcous (killed 24 sows and boars in 36 hours and made 300 AND the farm crew sick), pseudorabies (I was on the tail end of that one), contagious staphylococcous infections, and whole herd aflatoxin poisoning (the foul four letter words I said about some people in that avoidable manmade debacle helped end my promising hog career) . I am accutely aware that vaccines can be limited and some things that worked well on one farm can be make matters worse in other places.

 

[EAT BEEF]

The thing I don't understand is why they are selling out so soon? Why not play it out a little or do they see no reason too because they think the cattle are worthless and don't want to feed them?

I don't know much about CCR but it seems like a chicken s#!t thing to do either prove you don't have a problem or put them all down.

 

[denoginnizer]

Wonder what they will do with there alabama herd?

 

[Angus In Texas]

Most of these operations that "disperse" only to be back in the game a year later, do so for tax purposes. You must show that you are striving to make a profit for the governments sake. What is it..... within 5 years I believe, thus the average registered outfit lasts 7 years before they disperse. The dispersal allows them to show some profit for a tax year and then they are right back in collecting tax breaks the next year. These big money ranches are all about the economic benefits of the owner, period. If they happen to improve the beef industry then they have gone above and beyond.

As for the dispersal so soon.... the email I received makes it sound almost like there might either be A) more people invested in CCR than Klaus or B) they have a lot of borrowed money or credit built up. I say this because if it is A then the investors see the potential losses mounting as time goes on and want out now or B, the creditors are now calling their leans. There is a lot of unstability in the fact that the USDA put the hold order on the entire herd. Either way you go, A or B, folks are probably concerned that if the USDA were to ever put a moratorium on the entire herd, then they wouldn't be able to get any of their money and therefore they don't want to take their chances.

Just my view on things from piecing together information. I doubt anyone will ever really know what is going on..... even their own employees.