Why does every breed of cattle cross so well with Angus?

[dun]

Maybe it's the black angus that benefit from being crossed! I know other breeds benefit from crossing with RED ANGUS

 

[Muddy]

Regardless of which breed/breeds a breeder uses he needs to be careful in his selection. There are many good Angus that sire uniformity and consistency. But they are also many that don't. Just because an individual looks good doesn't mean he will breed that way. There have been many fire and ice matings in many breeds. I've seen many in the Angus and Hereford breeds. The progeny of these mating many times don't sire consistency or conformity. A buyer in the seats notices that right off. The experienced buyers can tell a high percentage Simmi or Limmi even if they are black. What was in the woodpile is what concerns me with some Angus and many Polled Herefords. But back to what breeds cross well I was talking to a fellow breeder today. We both agreed in the past we had saw and owned some good Char/Angus and Char/Hereford crosses. The main reason that he quit was because of the dock. They started really docking the smokies. The desire for black hides played a factor in many breeding decisions. I knew of on ranch that fed out all of their cattle and continued the Char/Hereford cross up into the 2000's.

So how do you know if it's a black Simmental or a black limousin?

. You know the phenotypical differences in the 2 breeds???

They're both black and Angus looking.

 

[ALACOWMAN]

Bout the answer I figured I'd get...like trying to teach a pig to sing...

 

[Stocker Steve]

I breed for calf crops with highest Net Profit (pounds weaned per cow exposed)
10 average calves from 10 cows NET more than 9 above average calves from 10 cows.

Any reason you prefer that metric (lbs weaned / exposed female) instead of another (say, net profit / acre)?

I think the smaller cow/larger net per acre guys assume you overpaid for pasture land and can only run cows. Kit is the keynote speaker at one of our winter meetings, so I will get an earful then. Let me know if you want the high points.

In our area feeder prices are dropping but bred beef is in high demand. Angus crosses with some muscle usually top this market. So the largest net per acre of "cow" pasture for is to run big bred heifers, at double the stocking rate of pairs .

 

[WalnutCrest]

I breed for calf crops with highest Net Profit (pounds weaned per cow exposed)
10 average calves from 10 cows NET more than 9 above average calves from 10 cows.

Any reason you prefer that metric (lbs weaned / exposed female) instead of another (say, net profit / acre)?

I think the smaller cow/larger net per acre guys assume you overpaid for pasture land and can only run cows. Kit is the keynote speaker at one of our winter meetings, so I will get an earful then. Let me know if you want the high points.

In our area feeder prices are dropping but bred beef is in high demand. Angus crosses with some muscle usually top this market. So the largest net per acre of "cow" pasture for is to run big bred heifers, at double the stocking rate of pairs .

Always interested in the comments of someone able to make a living in one of the midst competitive businesses out there, so yeah, sure. LMK what the man has to say.

Running a seedstock operation is pretty much the exact opposite of having a flexible business.

 

[Son of Butch]

I breed for calf crops with highest Net Profit (pounds weaned per cow exposed)
10 average calves from 10 cows NET more than 9 above average calves from 10 cows.

Any reason you prefer that metric (lbs weaned / exposed female) instead of another (say, net profit / acre)?

pounds weaned per cow exposed measures your cow herd's production

It provides a yardstick to measure your herd's progress or regression from one year to another.
It also shows you how your management choices are faring... am I providing too much or too little nutrition/supplements... am I doing a good job managing herd fertility and calf survival ect. and where do I need to improve.

profit per acre measures the production of your land, an important, but separate issue.
p.s.
We row crop so I probably view land differently than a strictly cow/calf operation.

 

[TennesseeTuxedo]

Maybe it's the black angus that benefit from being crossed! I know other breeds benefit from crossing with RED ANGUS

Breed Pimp Alert!!!

 

[WalnutCrest]

I breed for calf crops with highest Net Profit (pounds weaned per cow exposed)
10 average calves from 10 cows NET more than 9 above average calves from 10 cows.

Any reason you prefer that metric (lbs weaned / exposed female) instead of another (say, net profit / acre)?

pounds weaned per cow exposed measures your cow herd's production

It provides a yardstick to measure your herd's progress or regression from one year to another.
It also shows you how your management choices are faring... am I providing too much or too little nutrition/supplements... am I doing a good job managing herd fertility and calf survival ect. and where do I need to improve.

profit per acre measures the production of your land, an important, but separate issue.
p.s.
We row crop so I probably view land differently than a strictly cow/calf operation.

Thanks.

I think yardsticks are great ... unless you're trying to lay out a 100 meter race. Then a different tool is called for.

It would appear having a couple of different guidelines to use to assess your whole operation should be incrementally helpful.

Lbs weaned / cow exposed (management decisions)
...and...
Lbs weaned / acre under management (land productivity)

...and...

$ profit / exposed cow
...and...
$ profit / acre ... two different ways to look at the efficiency of the operation

Thank you.

 

[Caustic Burno]

Maybe it's the black angus that benefit from being crossed! I know other breeds benefit from crossing with RED ANGUS

Breed Pimp Alert!!!

I thought that was the idea of the thread.

 

[f1tiger]

In reference to the f1 brahmousin cattle being crazy is a matter of opinion: my f1 brahmousin heifers and bulls sell for as much as my Bradford f1s : it is all about genetics : my limies are all registered and bred to jdh or v8 bulls and that makes the difference .. you do not go buy sale barn cattle and compare those cattle to cattle sired by premier cattle breeders that know what they are doing no matter what breed you use , most of my cattle are bought by cattle women that will tolerate only gentle cattle on their ranches so that is what I try to provide .. yes these ladies own big places in east texas and Texas marsh , they know what they are doing and demand docile and functional cattle that will perform and have the genetics to back them up

 

[True Grit Farms]

Maybe it's the black angus that benefit from being crossed! I know other breeds benefit from crossing with RED ANGUS

Breed Pimp Alert!!!

I thought that was the idea of the thread.

No not at all, I was just curious. Seems like everyone wants to bash Angus and to me Angus is the reason more beef isn't imported into the United States. But I'll ask again because either no one else knows or no one else cares, but I do. After the Angus breed, is Brahman, or Hereford the most commonly used breed to make crossbred composite cattle?

 

[Ebenezer]

Breed Pimp Alert!!!

I thought that was the idea of the thread.

No not at all, I was just curious. Seems like everyone wants to bash Angus and to me Angus is the reason more beef isn't imported into the United States. But I'll ask again because either no one else knows or no one else cares, but I do. After the Angus breed, is Brahman, or Hereford the most commonly used breed to make crossbred composite cattle?

The question that needs asking is what should be taught and practiced to decrease the cost of production, improve efficiency, produce a product that would be in higher demand and actually decrease the need for beef imports.

The answer is not hidden. Other species know or have known for years how to maximize efficiency. But blind breed believers, cattle maximizers, cattle minimizers, egotists, power grabbers, the great and learned to be great and learned, the blind number guys and cattle groomers have all had their time to skew and bend and keep the industry in turmoil. Everyone is brainwashed that "better is bought" rather than "better is bred". It is a constant rotation of blinding lights which obscure the vision.

The answers are not breeds but lines (or breeds or crosses) of environmentally adapted cattle that complement one another so that the terminal calves are quite suitable and in demand while the cow calf producer is profitable. What is in the void: true leaders, an understanding that more costs more if more is the goal of every cow and bull, that the cow calf guy will always get what the buyers want to pay, that consumers will get what the packers want to sell, ... The answers are not breeds.

 

[Muddy]

I thought the black hide is the reason why there are more Angus composites than other breed composites

 

[Bright Raven]

The question that needs asking is what should be taught and practiced to decrease the cost of production, improve efficiency, produce a product that would be in higher demand and actually decrease the need for beef imports.

The answer is not hidden. Other species know or have known for years how to maximize efficiency. But blind breed believers, cattle maximizers, cattle minimizers, egotists, power grabbers, the great and learned to be great and learned, the blind number guys and cattle groomers have all had their time to skew and bend and keep the industry in turmoil. Everyone is brainwashed that "better is bought" rather than "better is bred". It is a constant rotation of blinding lights which obscure the vision.

The answers are not breeds but lines (or breeds or crosses) of environmentally adapted cattle that complement one another so that the terminal calves are quite suitable and in demand while the cow calf producer is profitable. What is in the void: true leaders, an understanding that more costs more if more is the goal of every cow and bull, that the cow calf guy will always get what the buyers want to pay, that consumers will get what the packers want to sell, ... The answers are not breeds.

BUT.......

I understand your thesis. I have had these exact thoughts!

BUT......there is something that we have called FREEDOM!

I can breed however and what ever I want. The show industry can breed however and whatever they want. After all, it is part of the cattle industry.

The only way to follow your well stated thesis of Breeding cattle - would be to legislate it and enforce it.

Everyone has their own philosophy, objectives, methods and concepts. Reality. This makes good conversation but that is all!

 

[elkwc]

I thought that was the idea of the thread.

No not at all, I was just curious. Seems like everyone wants to bash Angus and to me Angus is the reason more beef isn't imported into the United States. But I'll ask again because either no one else knows or no one else cares, but I do. After the Angus breed, is Brahman, or Hereford the most commonly used breed to make crossbred composite cattle?

The question that needs asking is what should be taught and practiced to decrease the cost of production, improve efficiency, produce a product that would be in higher demand and actually decrease the need for beef imports.

The answer is not hidden. Other species know or have known for years how to maximize efficiency. But blind breed believers, cattle maximizers, cattle minimizers, egotists, power grabbers, the great and learned to be great and learned, the blind number guys and cattle groomers have all had their time to skew and bend and keep the industry in turmoil. Everyone is brainwashed that "better is bought" rather than "better is bred". It is a constant rotation of blinding lights which obscure the vision.

The answers are not breeds but lines (or breeds or crosses) of environmentally adapted cattle that complement one another so that the terminal calves are quite suitable and in demand while the cow calf producer is profitable. What is in the void: true leaders, an understanding that more costs more if more is the goal of every cow and bull, that the cow calf guy will always get what the buyers want to pay, that consumers will get what the packers want to sell, ... The answers are not breeds.

I agree with your statements. The issue is what will work in my area and environment won't work in other areas. Depending on where you are located cow size will vary. I talked to a breeder just this week trying to buy cows. Due to his environment and type of grass and terrain he has found that smaller cows in the 1,100-1,200 range do better in his area. He is having a hard time finding quality cows in this size range. Most here breed for a 1,250-1,350 cow. In the area I frequent in OK and run a few cows most including me want them a little bigger. Then some areas need a Brahma influence and others don't. So it would be hard to breed a cow that would fit and cover all IMO.

 

[Caustic Burno]

Grit to answer your question.

Brahman influenced cattle make up 42%
of the US cow herd.
I am willing to bet Angus don't.
http://www.bifconference.com/bif2012/su ... onment.htm

 

[ALACOWMAN]

Grit to answer your question.

Brahman influenced cattle make up 42%
of the US cow herd.
I am willing to bet Angus don't.
If angus don't,, apparently it ain't because they ain't trying :cowboy:

 

[Bright Raven]

Grit to answer your question.

Brahman influenced cattle make up 42%
of the US cow herd.
I am willing to bet Angus don't.
http://www.bifconference.com/bif2012/su ... onment.htm

CB, I would not doubt that. But to be clear are you comparing Brahman-Influenced to Angus-Influenced or to pure Angus. Huge difference.

 

[Caustic Burno]

Grit to answer your question.

Brahman influenced cattle make up 42%
of the US cow herd.
I am willing to bet Angus don't.
http://www.bifconference.com/bif2012/su ... onment.htm

CB, I would not doubt that. But to be clear are you comparing Brahman-Influenced to Angus-Influenced or to pure Angus. Huge difference.

Grits question after Angus what is the most popular breed to make composite cattle. I can't find the data where they outrank the 42%.
He wasn't talking pure he was talking influenced.
Go back and read his question.

 

[Bright Raven]

Grit to answer your question.

Brahman influenced cattle make up 42%
of the US cow herd.
I am willing to bet Angus don't.
http://www.bifconference.com/bif2012/su ... onment.htm

CB, I would not doubt that. But to be clear are you comparing Brahman-Influenced to Angus-Influenced or to pure Angus. Huge difference.

Grits question after Angus what is the most popular breed to make composite cattle. I can't find the data where they outrank the 42%.
He wasn't talking pure he was talking influenced.

Thanks. Might be tough then to find those numbers but there is a crap load of Angus influenced cattle standing out there.