Why are Hereford bulls overlooked?

[Brute 23]

My issue has been what others have said already. It's really hard to find really good quality Herefords down here. Unless you just have to have a Hereford to make tigers or baldies you can buy a Char or Angus bull of good quality fairly easy to make calves to go to sale barn.

 

[SPH]

I agree with a lot of the posts so far in this thread when it comes to positives and criticisms. I do think it's partially a regional thing when it comes to demand for Herefords from what I hear as some guys seem surprised to see sale results around here that struggle to sell good Hereford bulls in their area for anywhere near those prices. I will say right now I think that in good portions of the Midwest Hereford bulls are in high demand and there are a lot of breeders that are raising some good Hereford cattle in the region that are breeding with the commercial guy in mind. Our state Hereford sale averaged $250 more than the Angus this year and was the top selling breed at the Iowa Beef Expo and their sale is held at the same time as the Hereford sale.

We don't have a huge herd - most years we breed around 20-25 females but we usually keep the top 3 or 4 bull calves to sell as yearlings and the large majority of them have sold to commercial guys with black cows and several of them have come back to buy another bull again after they liked the results they got from the 1st bull they bought. One of our bulls this year sold to a guy that bought a bull from us 3 years ago and he told us he is done buying Angus bulls after using a Hereford bull. We aren't selling bulls at a discount or near sale barn prices but we do follow the market and production sales and price ours accordingly and most guys do not balk at our asking prices. We collect weights and data on our bulls through yearling including DNA testing and ultrasound at their BSE which we feel adds to their value when there is raw data behind them and not just blindly trusting their EPDs.

I think some of the negatives Herefords got a bad rap for over the years like calving ease, eye problems, prolapse, and udders most breeders have culled and bred out those problems over the years. First off I think that pinkeye is much more an environmental thing than it is genetic. We vaccinate for pinkeye before cows and calves go out to summer pasture and unless we have a really dry summer we hardly ever have to treat for pinkeye. The commercial breeder just down the road from us had a black Angus bull nearly go blind from pinkeye one summer while we didn't have to treat a single animal for it so I don't buy into the notion that it's a problem specific to Herefords. With calving ease, regardless what you may think of EPDs that is the 1 area we do not ignore when we make breeding decisions as we have been bitten more than once by taking a chance on a higher BW and CE EPD bull despite his actual BW being reasonable. There is a good chance that EPD is high for a reason because there are probably calving ease issues somewhere in the bull's pedigree that he has inherited and the accuracy behind the EPD is important to pay attention to as well. The prolapse issues usually can be traced back to certain sires that I think anyone who had a problem with culled as soon as they identified the source. And finally udders, that is an area I think a lot of Hereford breeders have made a lot of progress in. I see a lot more cows in Hereford programs today that have adequate milk and good teat and udder structure than there was 10-20 years ago. The 2 biggest problems were a cow that milked heavy but had big teats and a saggy udder or a cow that didn't milk worth a darn. Everyone has their own opinions on what they call a functional udder so there is always room for improvement when it comes to udders the Hereford breed has come a long ways in that area.

 

[BFE]

Myself, I've not had as good of results with Herf cows. The calves seem to be slower growing than my SimAngus. I assume it's not an issue of breeding, these cows have a lot of fancy letters in the prefix's on their registration papers. I am using my Horned bull over the black cows for cleanup, I'll tell you how that goes by the end of the year. I'm expecting some really nice calves out of him on my black girls.
I do think most commercial guys in my area are giving up something by just using Angus bull after Angus bull. What's the point in going basically purebred on a commercial herd?

 

[Stocker Steve]

Baldy bred heifers sell for $100 to $150 more than straight angus here. A good Hereford bull will put about 20# on steer calves vs. straight angus. It also seems to me that the baldy calves have a little more vigor at birth. You can put pounds on F1 terminal steers using a number of breeds, but if you are a commercial operation that retains heifers, you can not afford to not use Hereford.

 

[True Grit Farms]

Baldy bred heifers sell for $100 to $150 more than straight angus here. A good Hereford bull will put about 20# on steer calves vs. straight angus. It also seems to me that the baldy calves have a little more vigor at birth. You can put pounds on F1 terminal steers using a number of breeds, but if you are a commercial operation that retains heifers, you can not afford to not use Hereford.

Steve how do Hereford bulls compare to SimAngus or Simmental bulls for putting pounds on calves?

 

[kickinbull]

Is there information available about different cow family's within the Hereford breed that makes choosing a certain family for traits? Such as YG, mothering, less hoof problems,calving ease,etc.

 

[Stocker Steve]

There is a lot of variation within the breeds and within the forage availability, but over black commercial cows, I would rank simangus and Hereford as equivalent, and straight simi 20 to 30 pounds higher, for weaning weight. This is based on limited personal MIG data, not second hand guesses.

The other factor is the percentage of live calves you wean... Simis have a higher management requirement than Herefords.

 

[Tbrake]

What are some Hereford bulls to use to make females on angus cows? Must be polled, and still want some decent growth. I have a few victor 719t in production, and they seem to be doing very well.

 

[SimAngHerf]

What are some Hereford bulls to use to make females on angus cows? Must be polled, and still want some decent growth. I have a few victor 719t in production, and they seem to be doing very well.

I know there are more factors than the sire but what are his daughters mature weight in good condition?

 

[Tbrake]

They are pretty big. I don't weigh my cows very often, but I would guess then to be around 1300. They are just coming 3 year olds, so I expect them to fill out more.Little bigger than I like, but they are out of some large, fleshy cows. Some of the best I own. I tried taking some pictures of them earlier, but they turned out bad. I can't get any pictures that show how good they truly are

 

[Lucky]

I've ran Hereford bulls over Angus cows for years without any problems. The baldy calves grow just as good if not better than the angus sired calves out of the same herd. Hereford sired calves are generally bigger but on grown cows that's not an issue. Main draw back to Hereford bulls is that it isn't very easy to find good ones and when you do they are pricey. Last year I had about 4 red baldies out of 35 hereford sired calves. They sell just as good as blacks though.

 

[SimAngHerf]

They are pretty big. I don't weigh my cows very often, but I would guess then to be around 1300. They are just coming 3 year olds, so I expect them to fill out more.Little bigger than I like, but they are out of some large, fleshy cows. Some of the best I own. I tried taking some pictures of them earlier, but they turned out bad. I can't get any pictures that show how good they truly are

I like the 1250-1350 mature range. Hopefully I will start AI'ing for 2019 breeding season

 

[SPH]

What are some Hereford bulls to use to make females on angus cows? Must be polled, and still want some decent growth. I have a few victor 719t in production, and they seem to be doing very well.

719T is a bull I have never warmed up to. I know some guys just love his females but I have never been impressed with progeny of his that I have seen in person and I know of 1 long time Hereford guy that feeds out a lot of steers that steered us away from using him after having some poor results with the steers sired by him. The large commercial operation just down the road from us that has mostly black cows did some AI to 719T and Revolution 4R 1 year as their herdsman is our AI tech and is co-owner in a Hereford partnership too and he was basically trying to give away the last of their 719T semen.

We used Revolution 4R and On Target 936 quite a bit recently and those 2 bulls probably have made more of an impact on our herd than any bulls we have ever used. Both are good for calving ease, their daughters have nice udders and their calves usually are some of the best in our recent calf crops.

 

[elkwc]

What are some Hereford bulls to use to make females on angus cows? Must be polled, and still want some decent growth. I have a few victor 719t in production, and they seem to be doing very well.

Not sure where you are located but Danny Miller who posts on this forum has some very nice line bred polled cattle. They would cover the bases very well and won't have the issues many of the other bloodlines have. The name of his farm is JMS Victor Domino Polled Herefords. He also sells semen I think. I wish he was closer to me. If he was I would likely of bought a bull from him. Kuhlaman's raise good polled cattle. If you are going with a more current bloodline the most consistent I've seen is About Time.

 

[SPH]

For you commercial guys, here is a story from a commercial guy we delivered a yearling bull to this week who is a 1st time customer that apparently has been doing his homework on Herefords. The bull we sold him his dam is a Revolution 4R granddaughter that is quickly becoming one of our best cows and his sire is an On Target 936 grandson who has probably added more thickness and muscle to our calves than any bull we have ever raised. He told us he paid more for this bull than he usually would but after researching Hereford AI sires and going back through this bull's performance records he felt it was a fair price and plans to get semen collected on him and use him AI too so he can use him on more than the group of cows he plans to run him with this summer to get the most out of his investment. There are a lot more commercial guys out there than purebred breeders so you have to keep them in mind too when you make breeding decisions.

 

[Black and Good]

I also ran a polled Hereford on black angus, Gelbvieh & Baldie cows for years. Around here is BA city but my baldies sold right with them everytime. I believe that if they are "good" calves they will ring the bell. B&G

 

[mrvictordomino]

Was wondering what bloodlines are causing the calving issues in the Hereford bulls mentioned in this thread if your willing to share.

 

[ALACOWMAN]

There is a lot of variation within the breeds and within the forage availability, but over black commercial cows, I would rank simangus and Hereford as equivalent, and straight simi 20 to 30 pounds higher, for weaning weight. This is based on limited personal MIG data, not second hand guesses.

The other factor is the percentage of live calves you wean... Simis have a higher management requirement than Herefords.

As far as doing ability goes, Hereford has it on a lot of breeds..they can make it on white salt and sedge grass...

 

[skyhightree1]

I am not opposed to a Hereford bull the Angus are readily available every where i go.

 

[ALACOWMAN]

I am not opposed to a Hereford bull the Angus are readily available every where i go.

Can't go for a tank of gas, without passing several herds of angus....