Why are Hereford bulls overlooked?

[sim.-ang.king]

The hereford breeders around here think to highly of their's. You can buy better blacks for half the price of a hereford bull, and wean more pounds from the black calves.
There's a reason they only sell yearling herefords...

 

[Stocker Steve]

I sure wouldn't put a Hereford bull on SimAngus heifers. Most of our calves were of average size, but we had a few really big calves using Hereford bulls.

Because of calf size?

 

[Stocker Steve]

Can someone help me understand why Herefords aren't utilized more often in crossbreeding programs except the legendary baldie.

1) Most folks just do what everyone else does so they go black...
2) You may have to travel farther for a Hereford bull.
3) Herefords are not an easy calving breed, but they do have calving ease bulls, so you need to be a little more selective when buying.
4) Concerns about getting a few red calves.
5) Concerns are getting a few horns.
6) Concerns about marbling.
7)

 

[sstterry]

In my opinion, in this area at least it started years ago with pinkeye/cancer eye issues and a perception that they were in general a weaker animal thus more prone to a range of health issues in general.
Then as the continental breeds became very much in demand they took away from the smaller framed British breeds. Then as the continentals began to fall out favor for issues of their own rite the Angus machine came to prominence with moderation and carcass quality being touted and thus the black hided era began, leaving Herefords behind yet again.
As a Hereford enthusiast I will say that as of right now I think the main reason they are overlooked is because of the market dock stemming from all of the above.
I am of the belief that Herefords can add a lot of positives to a herd. My experience has been that as a whole they are more docile and easy to work with than others. In our herd they seem to calve more regularly and raise heavier calves than our black cows.
They seem to me to crossbreed well with other breeds, the BWF is a good cross for about any scenario.
One of the thickest calves ever raised here was a Hereford x Limousin.
Years ago I crossed a Hereford bull on some Holstien and Jersey cows. Angus worked good on them, but I thought the Hereford added some more volume and size to their calves, and the resulting heifer calves made some fine cows.
We currently have a Hereford bull with cows and another young one soon to go out.

That was very well said, while I haven't been around long enough to see it as you described I definitely notice most markets favor the certified angus beef which requires >50% black hide amongst a few other characteristics.

The "Certified Angus" label really chaps my butt. It was nothing but a marketing ploy by the Angus Breeders. But it did work and it has stuck. They even got some regulations passed to meet the certification. One of the originators was from Jonesboro Tn as I recall.

 

[ALACOWMAN]

In my opinion, in this area at least it started years ago with pinkeye/cancer eye issues and a perception that they were in general a weaker animal thus more prone to a range of health issues in general.
Then as the continental breeds became very much in demand they took away from the smaller framed British breeds. Then as the continentals began to fall out favor for issues of their own rite the Angus machine came to prominence with moderation and carcass quality being touted and thus the black hided era began, leaving Herefords behind yet again.
As a Hereford enthusiast I will say that as of right now I think the main reason they are overlooked is because of the market dock stemming from all of the above.
I am of the belief that Herefords can add a lot of positives to a herd. My experience has been that as a whole they are more docile and easy to work with than others. In our herd they seem to calve more regularly and raise heavier calves than our black cows.
They seem to me to crossbreed well with other breeds, the BWF is a good cross for about any scenario.
One of the thickest calves ever raised here was a Hereford x Limousin.
Years ago I crossed a Hereford bull on some Holstien and Jersey cows. Angus worked good on them, but I thought the Hereford added some more volume and size to their calves, and the resulting heifer calves made some fine cows.
We currently have a Hereford bull with cows and another young one soon to go out.

That was very well said, while I haven't been around long enough to see it as you described I definitely notice most markets favor the certified angus beef which requires >50% black hide amongst a few other characteristics.

The "Certified Angus" label really chaps my butt. It was nothing but a marketing ploy by the Angus Breeders. But it did work and it has stuck. They even got some regulations passed to meet the certification. One of the originators was from Jonesboro Tn as I recall.

that's a fire that's too late and too hot to stop....

 

[sstterry]

That was very well said, while I haven't been around long enough to see it as you described I definitely notice most markets favor the certified angus beef which requires >50% black hide amongst a few other characteristics.

The "Certified Angus" label really chaps my butt. It was nothing but a marketing ploy by the Angus Breeders. But it did work and it has stuck. They even got some regulations passed to meet the certification. One of the originators was from Jonesboro Tn as I recall.

that's a fire that's too late and too hot to stop....

I agree, but here are the certification guidelines. It is all about the carcass.

 

[sstterry]

Sorry I brought this up. I was perusing the Coffee Shop and noticed that this has been debated ad nauseam. My apologies to the Board (I'm still new)

 

[sim.-ang.king]

Sorry I brought this up. I was perusing the Coffee Shop and noticed that this has been debated ad nauseam. My apologies to the Board (I'm still new)

It's better to debate cattle, than why someone's feelers got hurt, like it's been lately.

 

[MRRherefords]

Can someone help me understand why Herefords aren't utilized more often in crossbreeding programs except the legendary baldie.

1) Most folks just do what everyone else does so they go black...
2) You may have to travel farther for a Hereford bull.
3) Herefords are not an easy calving breed, but they do have calving ease bulls, so you need to be a little more selective when buying.
4) Concerns about getting a few red calves.
5) Concerns are getting a few horns.
6) Concerns about marbling.
7)

These are all issues the we (I say we as Hereford breeders) are trying to work on. Besides the red issue (I still prefer red), we are breeding for calving ease. My Hereford bull has never sired a calf that needed assistance at birth, actually it has been ten years since I have had to pull one. Breeders are beginning for the most part to address the horns, even though there are good horned bulls as well. And marbling is something that we as a breed are really trying to improve on. Just like all breeds there are positives and negatives to them and a good eye and good attention to detail can find you a great animal in just about any breed. Here in Pennsylvania, Herefords are in good demand. We have many people contacting us wanting Hereford bulls because we breed for calving ease and also they are docile. I believe that we as cattle breeders can very easily find flaws in all breeds of cattle, (others and our own) and work to breed improved cattle that are a compliment to their breed. I know that is my goal in the Hereford breed and I am sure it is others weather they raise Angus, Simmental, Charlois, or any other breed.

 

[True Grit Farms]

At one time the lack of milk and udder quality was a negative in Hereford cattle. That could also be why they are easy doing and cross so good with Angus and Simmental.

 

[kickinbull]

Here in SC KY it's a price thing. Black brings more. Plain and simple.i am not color blind.

 

[Bullitt]

Just a regional thing. Far more Hereford, Charolais and Red Angus bulls travelling pastures here than Black Angus. BA fad has come and gone here, lasted a good 10 years; longer than the Limo fad.

That is good to know.

Hopefully we will see a similar situation in the United States soon.

It is crazy to me that an Angus that is black sells for more than one that is red when they are both Angus. In Great Britain it is one breed. Are black and red Angus considered the same breed in Canada also?

 

[SimAngHerf]

The "Certified Angus" label really chaps my butt. It was nothing but a marketing ploy by the Angus Breeders. But it did work and it has stuck. They even got some regulations passed to meet the certification. One of the originators was from Jonesboro Tn as I recall.

that's a fire that's too late and too hot to stop....

I agree, but here are the certification guidelines. It is all about the carcass.

It's sad because all breeds "can/could" meet the same requirements + or - the hide but I sure love a good ribeye and can't say I ever asked "what color was the hide". I reckon we call it good marketing on their part. I like things about the angus breed but am not stuck on any breed they all have strengths and weaknesses and should be a tool in the toolbox as someone else stated. This is what I pulled off the angus website.

 

[SimAngHerf]

Just a regional thing. Far more Hereford, Charolais and Red Angus bulls travelling pastures here than Black Angus. BA fad has come and gone here, lasted a good 10 years; longer than the Limo fad.

That is good to know.

Hopefully we will see a similar situation in the United States soon.

It is crazy to me that an Angus that is black sells for more than one that is red when they are both Angus. In Great Britain it is one breed. Are black and red Angus considered the same breed in Canada also?

Most Americans need a click to be in and someone to follow.

 

[ALACOWMAN]

that's a fire that's too late and too hot to stop....

I agree, but here are the certification guidelines. It is all about the carcass.

It's sad because all breeds "can/could" meet the same requirements + or - the hide but I sure love a good ribeye and can't say I ever asked "what color was the hide". I reckon we call it good marketing on their part. I like things about the angus breed but am not stuck on any breed they all have strengths and weaknesses and should be a tool in the toolbox as someone else stated. This is what I pulled off the angus website.

the marbling and tenderness in the meat that is under that black hide is why,and what their after....and no,I'm not a angus pimp...

 

[sim.-ang.king]

Just a regional thing. Far more Hereford, Charolais and Red Angus bulls travelling pastures here than Black Angus. BA fad has come and gone here, lasted a good 10 years; longer than the Limo fad.

That is good to know.

Hopefully we will see a similar situation in the United States soon.

It is crazy to me that an Angus that is black sells for more than one that is red when they are both Angus. In Great Britain it is one breed. Are black and red Angus considered the same breed in Canada also?

Most Americans need a click to be in and someone to follow.

Well if making a profit is a click, I'm in!

 

[SimAngHerf]

That is good to know.

Hopefully we will see a similar situation in the United States soon.

It is crazy to me that an Angus that is black sells for more than one that is red when they are both Angus. In Great Britain it is one breed. Are black and red Angus considered the same breed in Canada also?

Most Americans need a click to be in and someone to follow.

Well if making a profit is a click, I'm in!

I'm going to have to agree with that comment!

 

[Tbrake]

I've been using a few Hereford bulls over BA cows for about 3 years now. All the old timers tell me I will have terrible pinkeye problems, but I have found there to be no difference. These pastures I AI to angus bulls and cleanup with Herefords. Makes it easy to tell them apart. I have a lot more calving troubles with Herefords, they are regularly 15-20lbs heavier. Haven't been able to find Herefords with the BW to weaning spread the angus have. But the Herefords flat grow, my steers have been at the very top of the sale every time. Heifers look phenomenal, very deep, long, lots of guts, and incredibly thick. People comment on them all the time. I enjoy the baldie calves so much because you never know what they are going to look like. Some with lots of white, full face and belly. Some with just a couple white spots on the face. Nothing cuter than a new born black mottly face.

 

[Tbrake]

I've been using a few Hereford bulls over BA cows for about 3 years now. All the old timers tell me I will have terrible pinkeye problems, but I have found there to be no difference. These pastures I AI to angus bulls and cleanup with Herefords. Makes it easy to tell them apart. I have a lot more calving troubles with Herefords, they are regularly 15-20lbs heavier. Haven't been able to find Herefords with the BW to weaning spread the angus have. But the Herefords flat grow, my steers have been at the very top of the sale every time. Heifers look phenomenal, very deep, long, lots of guts, and incredibly thick. People comment on them all the time. I enjoy the baldie calves so much because you never know what they are going to look like. Some with lots of white, full face and belly. Some with just a couple white spots on the face. Nothing cuter than a new born black mottly face.

I'm trying to decide what breed to use on these white face heifers this fall. Thinking either go back angus, or gelbvieh. I did not care for the Hereford over my cross bred cows(gelvieh/angus and gelbvieh/char) Result were pretty inconsistent.

 

[SimAngHerf]

I've been using a few Hereford bulls over BA cows for about 3 years now. All the old timers tell me I will have terrible pinkeye problems, but I have found there to be no difference. These pastures I AI to angus bulls and cleanup with Herefords. Makes it easy to tell them apart. I have a lot more calving troubles with Herefords, they are regularly 15-20lbs heavier. Haven't been able to find Herefords with the BW to weaning spread the angus have. But the Herefords flat grow, my steers have been at the very top of the sale every time. Heifers look phenomenal, very deep, long, lots of guts, and incredibly thick. People comment on them all the time. I enjoy the baldie calves so much because you never know what they are going to look like. Some with lots of white, full face and belly. Some with just a couple white spots on the face. Nothing cuter than a new born black mottly face.

I'm trying to decide what breed to use on these white face heifers this fall. Thinking either go back angus, or gelbvieh. I did not care for the Hereford over my cross bred cows(gelvieh/angus and gelbvieh/char) Result were pretty inconsistent.

Have you thought about Simmentals or Simangus? I don't have a ton of experience but I like what GW Robust sons have done in guys I know. I don't have any idea how that would or wouldn't work with char & gelbvieh though