Where's the money?

[Caustic Burno]

Seems like some of you New Cowboys have got this figured out how to get rich quick.

 

[Craig-TX]

The people who pay those prices are the same people who need tax deductions because of other income. I'm not knocking them – power to 'em. They keep the breeders in business. And the breeders continually improve the quality of the national herd which helps the beef industry.

But if you're wanting a few cows that will pay their own way why not buy cheap pairs. Then you know she can calve. Buy young momma cows that look somewhat poor but sound. Or buy 6-8 year old sound cows with light calves at their sides. You will get a pair for $hundreds less than a fancy cow will cost and you'll be amazed at what she will look like next year if you've put her on good grass and taken care of her thru the winter. She might not be anything to brag about but you'll be in the money on her next calf. The same principle, with a little more risk, can be applied to young bred cows. And same for bulls.

And BTW I'll vouch for Campground's rule of thumb on the previous page. That's pretty close to reality.

Craig-TX

 

[Texan]

From conception to weaning I would think I make less than $250 per head..........

Alan, I don't see how you can make anywhere close to $250 dollars profit from selling the calves you posted about that brought less than $400. You must be a true low-cost producer, or else its a helluva lot less than $250 profit. Most of us can't carry a cow for a year for $150. Apparently, you even do better than that when you figure in this statement:

......not much of a return for 15 months.

You know, most cattlemen try to get a return out of a cow every 12 months. If you sell a calf every 15 months instead, you incur 25% more cow costs per calf sold than if you sold one a year. How can you say you make that much profit when you're doing that? What am I doing wrong?

 

[cattle_gal]

If you can break even(actual net - operating expenses, living expenses, chattle purchases, loan payments, addtional feed costs, ect) at the end of each year count your blessings. That's why most have outside income coming in.

 

[Caustic Burno]

From conception to weaning I would think I make less than $250 per head..........

Alan, I don't see how you can make anywhere close to $250 dollars profit from selling the calves you posted about that brought less than $400. You must be a true low-cost producer, or else its a helluva lot less than $250 profit. Most of us can't carry a cow for a year for $150. Apparently, you even do better than that when you figure in this statement:

......not much of a return for 15 months.

You know, most cattlemen try to get a return out of a cow every 12 months. If you sell a calf every 15 months instead, you incur 25% more cow costs per calf sold than if you sold one a year. How can you say you make that much profit when you're doing that? What am I doing wrong?

Tex I was wonderin how he did that to as in his previous post he had concerns about low weaning weights. Now Tex he is actually doing even better than we think as he is hauling 400 lb weaned calves to the salebarn at six months. Pure genius 200 lb lighter calfs making remarkable profits. We could learn something here.

 

[Oldtimer]

The people who pay those prices are the same people who need tax deductions because of other income. I'm not knocking them – power to 'em. They keep the breeders in business. And the breeders continually improve the quality of the national herd which helps the beef industry.

But if you're wanting a few cows that will pay their own way why not buy cheap pairs. Then you know she can calve. Buy young momma cows that look somewhat poor but sound. Or buy 6-8 year old sound cows with light calves at their sides. You will get a pair for $hundreds less than a fancy cow will cost and you'll be amazed at what she will look like next year if you've put her on good grass and taken care of her thru the winter. She might not be anything to brag about but you'll be in the money on her next calf. The same principle, with a little more risk, can be applied to young bred cows. And same for bulls.

And BTW I'll vouch for Campground's rule of thumb on the previous page. That's pretty close to reality.

Craig-TX

Craig- I agree with you-- If you just want to run a few cows the best money is in buying a few older bred cows--many places cull them when they lose 1 tooth (sometimes only 4-5 years old) or hit 10 years of age-- Sell for $350- 500 as brokenmouths - Some of these cows have several years left in them if you have good pasture-- I've bought them over the years just to put on one good pasture I have and probably made more off them than some of the ones I raised-- Altho this year those same cows that were selling for $400 are now selling for $800-900..... Might just have to run some of the old girls one more year on that pasture.....
I like to keep my own heifers --- and at the $1300- 1400 mark the bred heifers up here are going for I definitely ain't buying any.... Some one has much more faith in the market then I do.........

 

[Wewild]

I grossed just enough to pay my property taxes.

I'd say you broke even if your the property taxes are for the acerage your cows are on.

 

[cherokeeruby]

"I'm in the Northwest and took in some 400lb polled hereford bulls. I got .965/lbs but that was above average for the weight bracket, the top angus steers in the bracket was only bringing about 1.05/lbs and not many of those, most were .85 to .92 per lb. Although one lone red steer brought 1.32/lb, no idea why. But for the number of calves that went through at lower prices I was happy with what I got. I wish I would have shipped them at weaning , I figure I lost all the money I put into feed.

Alan"

400 lb weaned and fed polled hereford bulls. How old were they, what did they weigh when they were weaned. Seem awfully light to me. Is this a reasonable for calves in the Northwest?

 

[greenwillowherefords]

"I'm in the Northwest and took in some 400lb polled hereford bulls. I got .965/lbs but that was above average for the weight bracket, the top angus steers in the bracket was only bringing about 1.05/lbs and not many of those, most were .85 to .92 per lb. Although one lone red steer brought 1.32/lb, no idea why. But for the number of calves that went through at lower prices I was happy with what I got. I wish I would have shipped them at weaning , I figure I lost all the money I put into feed.

Alan"

400 lb weaned and fed polled hereford bulls. How old were they, what did they weigh when they were weaned. Seem awfully light to me. Is this a reasonable for calves in the Northwest?

Forgive me for butting in before Alan answers, but on another thread he discussed this, and I think he was wondering if they were wormy.

No offense to Alan, but I would question whether his cow family was milking, or whether his bull was close kin to the cows, or both, as well as a possible worm problem. Just to illustrate the potential of the right polled Hereford genetics, I have made a deposit on a Flying G Ranch bull named FGR Nevin Hudson N4 who had a 70 pound BW and 740# 205 day with no creep. He is out of a half sister to the L1M cow you have seen in previous threads. Good luck, Alan and take care all.

 

[plbcattle]

just out of curisoity, to those selling your heifers and bull calves at weaning, why not hold on to them another 8-10 monthes adn sell them as breeding age bulls and bred heifers. you can get twice what you get at weaning and if you time your calving right they aren't costing that much on green pasture. I know some won't be replacment quality but why not market the rest as older animals. just a ?

 

[D.R. Cattle]

I'm doing a fair bit better than above numbers, but it's only on the basis of leased pasture in Florida that requires VERY little input. Bush hogging the biggest expense done with my own equipment. The lease is $2.50/acre and we can stock 2 acres/head with little or no fertilizer and zero hay. Mind you that is highly improved ground. Inputs are replacements, mineral and health costs ($20/head annually). That's getting about 10 years out of cows or culling 10% of the herd every year.

 

[Campground Cattle]

I'm doing a fair bit better than above numbers, but it's only on the basis of leased pasture in Florida that requires VERY little input. Bush hogging the biggest expense done with my own equipment. The lease is $2.50/acre and we can stock 2 acres/head with little or no fertilizer and zero hay. Mind you that is highly improved ground. Inputs are replacements, mineral and health costs ($20/head annually). That's getting about 10 years out of cows or culling 10% of the herd every year.

I am envious No Hay. I hate Hay.

 

[TXBobcat]

Bush hogging the biggest expense done with my own equipment. The lease is $2.50/acre and we can stock 2 acres/head with little or no fertilizer and zero hay. Mind you that is highly improved ground.

D.R.,

Is that the norm down there, $2.50 an acre? That seems awful cheap for improved lease land, actually for any kind of land, unless they are also figuring your upkeep of the land as part of the payment. Around this part of the country, lease land will cost anywhere from $7 to $30 an acre.

 

[D.R. Cattle]

Bush hogging the biggest expense done with my own equipment. The lease is $2.50/acre and we can stock 2 acres/head with little or no fertilizer and zero hay. Mind you that is highly improved ground.

D.R.,

Is that the norm down there, $2.50 an acre? That seems awful cheap for improved lease land, actually for any kind of land, unless they are also figuring your upkeep of the land as part of the payment. Around this part of the country, lease land will cost anywhere from $7 to $30 an acre.

Not really the norm, I just aquired these pieces in my county from desperate taxpayers because land values have gone through the roof. $80,000/acre where one of my leases is. With those prices you never know how much longer you can keep a lease. In Okeechobee county (not too far away) where cattle are a lot more popular and there is competition for cow leases I've heard prices more in the range of what you spoke of. My leases are old citrus groves that lost their ag exemption. Landowner fenced it for me and cleaned it up. I keep the fences looking good and keep it mowed, and carry liability all of which any cattleman would do anyway. Landowner saves himself thousands every year in taxes and his place looks great.

 

[dun]

Dun are you saying that is what you make per head if you count the cost of what you bale and other things that don't actually cost you money but do cost b/c you are using it instead of selling it?

josh

Not sure if I understand the question. But here goes. The value of the forage the cow eats has to be figured in because thatt's a commodity that could be sold if she didn't eat it. In other words, even on pasture, the cow doesn't eat for free.

dun

 

[endebt]

i run a cow calve operation here in central tx. i have worked it out a lot of times and it always comes out to the same numberss. $300.00 is what it cost me to brake even on a calve. this the hay vac. and worming. it also includes the cow and her feed. this year has been good but we needed more calves to sell.ha. ha. it always seems to take more calves to build fences and work on pens. as far as making big money the love of the job and dealing with the animals is good. i have an outside income to feed my wife andme. the cows p-ay for their up keep and feed. i sell hiefers and bulls. this helps stay out of the sale barns, it hurts to much to work that hard to go there and be given what they want to not what the are worth.

 

[Muratic]

it hurts to much to work that hard to go there and be given what they want to not what the are worth.

Bet there are a few Caunks on the board that will agree with you there.

 

[CattleAnnie]

Amen, Muratic.

Take care.

 

[ManyHorses]

It's common for people to confuse making profits/losses with 'cashflow'... and that's what I think has been happening in this discussion.

Think of 'cashflow' as being the environment or 'bigger picture' you're operating in, and making profits and taking losses as a series 'smaller pictures' taking place within that timeframe. We have all kinds of profits and losses that go into our operations but as long as we operate with a 'positive cashflow' we can sustain the ups and downs of profits and losses.

Noticing how folks are 'accounting' for things in this discussion is making for the 'apples and oranges' effect on the wide range of profits and losses being hashed over. Also having an effect would be the method of accounting - cash vs accrual methods.

Anyway... just take it all with a block of salt because regardless of how profitable producers think they are, they can't survive very long in a negative cashflow environment.

Just my two cents worth... Richard

 

[Muratic]

as long as we operate with a 'positive cashflow' we can sustain the ups and downs of profits and losses.

And that is why our good Canadian friends are taking off farm jobs right now right. To keep the 'positive cashflow'? Not so sure some of then are gonna beable to "sustain the ups and downs of profits and losses" because there just isn't any profits.

Anyway... just take it all with a block of salt because regardless of how profitable producers think they are, they can't survive very long in a negative cashflow environment.

Hello Captian Obvious

Just my two cents worth... Richard

Which is worth even less in Canuk money!