Where's the money?

[Alan]

Anybody want to state what they feel they are making per head net profit at current prices. (excluding your personal labor, and real estate cost). I ask because as a little guy even with the high prices not a whole lot of money in it...I do it because I like it... a hobby if you will.

From conception to weaning I would think I make less than $250 per head, not much of a return for 15 months. I know I have many areas to improve, ie;, pasture managment, nutritonal managment, as well as cow quality, but all those areas tap into profit.

Does anyone do better per head after cost? if so how much do you have to do to get it? (ie; building show stock clientel, seed stock, etc.)

Just curious,

Alan

 

[ollie]

Alan if you are making that much money per cow then you are among the best in the nation.

 

[Alan]

Boy I hope not Ollie, if I could sell 100 head a year I couldn't live on 25000 per year, you have to figure in real estate cost with the 25000. I'm small, I sold 5 calves this year, culled one cow (kinda like the brindle Bez shared with us) and kept 2 calves over, one to sell one to butcher. I have my own bull, I figure I can sell him after a three years for just about what I paid for him, just feed cost and misc. I grossed just enough to pay my property taxes. Not enough left over to buy that new truck I want.

Like many, I work to support my hobby, I'm just curious what some others feel they make net profit per head.

The $250 per head is just a guestiment, with minimal amount of thought to come to that figure.

 

[TheBullLady]

I think a lot of that is going to depend on the type of operation you're running. With all terminal crosses, with calves being sold at auction at weaning, you're getting a quicker return. With registered cattle or seed stock, you're keeping your stock longer, ie: breeding age or as bred cows.

 

[ollie]

Boy I hope not Ollie, if I could sell 100 head a year I couldn't live on 25000 per year, you have to figure in real estate cost with the 25000. I'm small, I sold 5 calves this year, culled one cow (kinda like the brindle Bez shared with us) and kept 2 calves over, one to sell one to butcher. I have my own bull, I figure I can sell him after a three years for just about what I paid for him, just feed cost and misc. I grossed just enough to pay my property taxes. Not enough left over to buy that new truck I want.

Like many, I work to support my hobby, I'm just curious what some others feel they make net profit per head.

The $250 per head is just a guestiment, with minimal amount of thought to come to that figure.

http://www.msu.edu/~ritchieh/papers/fortdodgeefficiency.html

 

[Rookie]

Alan, I primarily buy custom feed steers for sale to people who want to put em in the deepfreeze. I know all the folks I sell to personally, so I try to treat em right. I MIGHT make 2oo a head but that doesn't seem like much considering the effort I put in to it. And that money doesn't even come in all at the same time. I do it more for the love of the feeling when I'm tendin the critters than anything. I'd go broke in a hurry if not for my full time night job.

george

 

[Alan]

I'm sorry bullLady, my mind is just on this tonight. I agree with your statment that it matters on the type of operation you have, that is why I left personal labor out of the formula. My opinion, seed stock producers work a lot harder than someone who turns calves at the auction at weaning. Net profit is yours for personal labor, you can break that down to $/hour. I know I'm not saying anything you all don't know, I'm just wondering how do people make money at it. What is a typical net profit per head? average net profit per head.

Alan

 

[Campground Cattle]

Through the years I have found it takes 3 to 4 calves to pay operating expences on 5 cows. In a good year plenty of grass lots of hay 3 calves bad year 4 calves. The average over the years is around 75 dollars a head, this year is going to come in much higher. Mild summer plenty of rain, mild winter so far. I haven't done the books yet I estimate this year 200 a cow. Now this is not the norm great prices,pasture,and hay crop this year .

 

[Archer913]

You mean to tell me in order to make $50,000/year you would have to sell 666 cows/year @ $75 a head net profit........... Come on that just doesn't add up???????????? But I am a newbie so Im not the sharpest knife in the drawer when it comes to this stuff........... Just doesn't seem like a very good return on investment if you know what I mean. But like I said, just a newbie!!

 

[dun]

Campground has got it right. From all of the various studys and stuff that's been done, $75 is about right for a well run outfit. There are some that are closer to $100, but the majority are below the 75 buck figure. This has been discussed on these boards are couple of times, and that's the consensus of most participants so it's not just "studys" done by a university or marketing organization.
Yhe single largest expense is the feed part, then taxes, equipment, medical/vetrinary, etc. The rule of thumb is that it takes $325 per year to feed a cow. That figure isn't the actual dollars spent, many of us don't spend much at all on feed, but it's the value of the feed. Frinstance, what the value of the hay is that she eats as forage if it was sold rather then being passed through the cow. In nomrla years, whatever normal is, a calf is worth roughly 500 bucks at weaning which is when the majority are sold. That would be a gross of $175, subtract the feed the calf eats, minerals, vaccinations, deperciation and original cow cost per calf, etc. and all of the other goodies and that puts you down into that magic $75 range(roughly figuring).

dun

 

[jgn]

I work to support my hobby

This statement you made says it all. I would be elated with $250 a head profit. In my opinion if you want to do this and make a living at it you would have to be large scale with a commercial herd. My neighbor farms full time with about 300 head of commercial cattle but still has a couple of part time jobs to help support it for health insurance purposes plus his wife works.

 

[fellersbarnoneranch]

Selling cattle appears lucrative to the innocent bystander. Once you're into it up to your elbows, it doesn't take long to come to the point where one says "Where's the money?" Especially for beginners--fresh starters--the green folk, startup costs and maintenance fees can be daunting. Take note as you look over posts with similar topics all the advice that says "do what you enjoy b/c that may be your only thanks...pay upfront and watch where every penny goes and maybe you won't lose your hope/donkey/mind"

Don't lose heart. There is money to be made but it seems to come slowly over generations! Might be a good time to mimic the old feller next door--you know--the one who's tighter than bark on a tree.

 

[Tod Dague]

You mean to tell me in order to make $50,000/year you would have to sell 666 cows/year @ $75 a head net profit........... Come on that just doesn't add up???????????? But I am a newbie so Im not the sharpest knife in the drawer when it comes to this stuff........... Just doesn't seem like a very good return on investment if you know what I mean. But like I said, just a newbie!!

Interesting number you came up with.

 

[Cattle Rack Rancher]

I would say around $125 CDN would be an average. However, the last couple of years up here will knock that down significantly. I have a neighbor who farms full time and has @ 200 head but he sells alot of hay and lives awful cheap. Its pretty rare around here to find a beef guy who doesn't have at least a second income coming in to support the family whether that be the wife or the husband or both.

 

[MULDOON]

This has been said before,,,
But I'll say it again, because I want to!!

The best way to get a small fortune out of cattle ,
is to start with a large fortune! :lol:

 

[jcissell]

Dun are you saying that is what you make per head if you count the cost of what you bale and other things that don't actually cost you money but do cost b/c you are using it instead of selling it?

josh

 

[Rod]

As for any newbee's I would listen to these guys. I really couldn't see how profit could be so low when I was first beginning and to be truthful I didn't really believe dun. A year and a half later I can tell you they know exactly what they are talking about, trust me. My father-in-law put it the best, whom is a full-timer. Son , he said, it's a good way to loose your ass and all your fixtures.

Rod

 

[plbcattle]

the net profit per head that you guys are talking about, is that for a weaned calf. if that is for pairs, or bred heifers something aint right.
in the registered brangus market right now a bred heifer is selling for 1500 and up. pairs and 3 n 1;s are averaging about 2700-3000. Most bulls start at $1700-3000. if all your making is $75 per head why be in it.

 

[Campground Cattle]

the net profit per head that you guys are talking about, is that for a weaned calf. if that is for pairs, or bred heifers something aint right.
in the registered brangus market right now a bred heifer is selling for 1500 and up. pairs and 3 n 1;s are averaging about 2700-3000. Most bulls start at $1700-3000. if all your making is $75 per head why be in it.

OK the the 3000 dollar bull and the 1500 heifer are free, if you are selling the calfs at the salebarn for 500 bucks you have to sell 9 to break even on the purchase price. Thats not including the cost of feed/fuel/medical supplies etc. Hey I am all ears if you have figured out a more profitable way let us know.

 

[tom4018]

We have tried to really track our closely the last few years and we have averaged $125 a head profit after all costs except for equipment purchase . Repairs of equipment was included in our cost per calve. Although the equipment depreciation saved us on taxes, last year our tax person said we saved $2000 on taxes.