Bez>
Well-known member
Thought about not writing this - but it is a long one and "whatthehell" why not?
Some places an escape like Randi's will cost you a lawsuit. Canada does not have the fence and border and lawsuit mentality of a lot of the U.S. States. That is because we are less population that that of California. Only you know what would have happened if they were your cattle.
I could run the numbers on 100 head - but I chose 25 - it all balances out in the end.
Running the pencil on 25 head of grassers - just for fun and rough numbers - not knowing the prices in that area.
Buy 25 head at 450 pounds at 95 cents a pound = 10,687 and change
Trucking - somewhere in the 200 buck range - short haul = 200 bucks.
Vaccinations at 4 bucks a head = 100 bucks - can be more and can be less.
Mineral and salt and additional feed stuffs at 10 cents a day is 25 x .10 x 180 = 450 bucks
Fence repair and miscellaneous repair = 300 bucks (I wish mine were this cheap)
Travel for 6 months - 24 trips @ 200 mile = 4800 miles
So I will roughly say 20 cents a mile - this is low = 960 bucks
Meals on the road? I know you can pack a lunch - but most times folks do not do this - but I will not include this.
I will not include wear and tear and repair on vehicle.
I will not include additional trips for emergencies and "forgotten items".
One vet call at 125 bucks
Total cost = 12,822 bucks
Weight gain of 2 pounds per day x 180 days = 360 pound gain
Animal weighs in at 810 pounds.
One dead - so animals weigh total 24 x 810 = 19,440 pounds
20,250 x .89 = 17,301 and change less trucking 400 bucks =16,901 and less sale commissions @ 3% = 519
Heavier animal more trucking cost - may be high or may be low for your area.
Heavier animal does not always - but usually brings a bit less per pound.
Total cash back = 16,382
Total cost = 12,822
Profit for 6 months = 3,650 bucks
Time not factored in - but basically you work for a week for 500 bucks every month. Bet you make more than that at your real job. Most folks do.
Cattle prices themselves are not important, because they go up and down together and I simply picked a few numbers that would / could be realistic in some areas.
Looks reasonable and it is fun.
But you have a wreck - oh, oh.
No insurance costs, no neighbour issue costs - crop damages for escapees were factored in - I paid 2 grand or thereabouts a couple years ago to keep neighbourhood peace.
You have to be able to accept the risks associated with your long distance. You also have to be able to accept that a family member on the land may be happy to let you do this for free for a while - but then the time may come when they ask for land rent or land tax money. Or an animal on leiu of cash - reducing your profit even further.
Have one of those major escapes and you could be in big ttrouble. Good fences? Great! My annual costs for fence are seldom less than a thousand bucks - others may be more or less - and that is simply repairs. A good fencer bites the bullet and you have even more cost.
Trees and cars and trucks and weather and people and animals have a habit of making good fences lousy in literally seconds.
Locked gates tend to get opened and left that way at times.
The other real big issue is - what happens when you literally cannot get there due to some type of committment.
And you get a call your cattle are out on the highway / road and one has been hit by a truck? Got someone who will do this for free? More than once?
I am sure you have read stories on this board about how "the neighbours *^(% cattle ........" or "that &(^%*&$ neighbour and his cattle ....".
You be careful, or you could be that person.
Now I know I am sounding negative.
But I kept a herd of a couple hundred animals more than 2500 miles away on grass. And I will have a small group about 50 miles away this summer - as we do every year. So I know a bit about what I am chatting about.
Can it be done?
Answer - yes.
Can money be made - well, maybe.
This is a cattle board and folks here love to talk cows - but less than 10% (I bet) make their money on cattle. In fact the other 90% I would bet do not break even - yet they will talk all day about cows - as will I.
Lots of folks here will tell you they bought cheap and sold high - but they will not tell you what the actual costs were - and some folks just from reading - I KNOW they are high - sky high.
Essentially what I am saying is you better no schitzen have your ducks in a row if you are going to do this because there is a great amount of risk.
And trust me that risk and cost goes up if you go to bred animals - loose one or two and you are a long time on the red before even breaking even.
And even though cattle do well on their own they do need to be watched. There are not many who do not patrol every day and every evening when calving season comes. You going to give up vacation for this? Will mom and kids (if you are hitched?)
That is why I am not a proponent of folks on hard times or of folks who "commute" getting into cattle. Especially if you are going to do it in a small way.
It costs more than you will make more often than not. There is a big - no huge TIME committment that has not been factored in. There is an up front cost and a big one.
There is no cash flow - it is a one payday scenario.
There are other ways to do it and make money.
Now if you are doing this to grow one or two and have fun or even just eat your own - I say go for it. But even growing one or two for your own freezer on average I would bet costs a lot folks more than simply buying meat on sale day.
I just know that someone is going to take me to task and nit pick a number or two.
But in fact I am quite close on this considering I have spent a grand total of about 10 minutes formulating the plan for you. I assure you it took me far longer to type it - but it is reasonable. Not exact but pretty close.
You can take it for what it is worth and remember - Have your pencil completed first and have your schitzen together or you will lose your shirt.
Costs will continue to rise - as will your personal time committments - but cattle prices may not.
Best regards,
Bez>
Some places an escape like Randi's will cost you a lawsuit. Canada does not have the fence and border and lawsuit mentality of a lot of the U.S. States. That is because we are less population that that of California. Only you know what would have happened if they were your cattle.
I could run the numbers on 100 head - but I chose 25 - it all balances out in the end.
Running the pencil on 25 head of grassers - just for fun and rough numbers - not knowing the prices in that area.
Buy 25 head at 450 pounds at 95 cents a pound = 10,687 and change
Trucking - somewhere in the 200 buck range - short haul = 200 bucks.
Vaccinations at 4 bucks a head = 100 bucks - can be more and can be less.
Mineral and salt and additional feed stuffs at 10 cents a day is 25 x .10 x 180 = 450 bucks
Fence repair and miscellaneous repair = 300 bucks (I wish mine were this cheap)
Travel for 6 months - 24 trips @ 200 mile = 4800 miles
So I will roughly say 20 cents a mile - this is low = 960 bucks
Meals on the road? I know you can pack a lunch - but most times folks do not do this - but I will not include this.
I will not include wear and tear and repair on vehicle.
I will not include additional trips for emergencies and "forgotten items".
One vet call at 125 bucks
Total cost = 12,822 bucks
Weight gain of 2 pounds per day x 180 days = 360 pound gain
Animal weighs in at 810 pounds.
One dead - so animals weigh total 24 x 810 = 19,440 pounds
20,250 x .89 = 17,301 and change less trucking 400 bucks =16,901 and less sale commissions @ 3% = 519
Heavier animal more trucking cost - may be high or may be low for your area.
Heavier animal does not always - but usually brings a bit less per pound.
Total cash back = 16,382
Total cost = 12,822
Profit for 6 months = 3,650 bucks
Time not factored in - but basically you work for a week for 500 bucks every month. Bet you make more than that at your real job. Most folks do.
Cattle prices themselves are not important, because they go up and down together and I simply picked a few numbers that would / could be realistic in some areas.
Looks reasonable and it is fun.
But you have a wreck - oh, oh.
No insurance costs, no neighbour issue costs - crop damages for escapees were factored in - I paid 2 grand or thereabouts a couple years ago to keep neighbourhood peace.
You have to be able to accept the risks associated with your long distance. You also have to be able to accept that a family member on the land may be happy to let you do this for free for a while - but then the time may come when they ask for land rent or land tax money. Or an animal on leiu of cash - reducing your profit even further.
Have one of those major escapes and you could be in big ttrouble. Good fences? Great! My annual costs for fence are seldom less than a thousand bucks - others may be more or less - and that is simply repairs. A good fencer bites the bullet and you have even more cost.
Trees and cars and trucks and weather and people and animals have a habit of making good fences lousy in literally seconds.
Locked gates tend to get opened and left that way at times.
The other real big issue is - what happens when you literally cannot get there due to some type of committment.
And you get a call your cattle are out on the highway / road and one has been hit by a truck? Got someone who will do this for free? More than once?
I am sure you have read stories on this board about how "the neighbours *^(% cattle ........" or "that &(^%*&$ neighbour and his cattle ....".
You be careful, or you could be that person.
Now I know I am sounding negative.
But I kept a herd of a couple hundred animals more than 2500 miles away on grass. And I will have a small group about 50 miles away this summer - as we do every year. So I know a bit about what I am chatting about.
Can it be done?
Answer - yes.
Can money be made - well, maybe.
This is a cattle board and folks here love to talk cows - but less than 10% (I bet) make their money on cattle. In fact the other 90% I would bet do not break even - yet they will talk all day about cows - as will I.
Lots of folks here will tell you they bought cheap and sold high - but they will not tell you what the actual costs were - and some folks just from reading - I KNOW they are high - sky high.
Essentially what I am saying is you better no schitzen have your ducks in a row if you are going to do this because there is a great amount of risk.
And trust me that risk and cost goes up if you go to bred animals - loose one or two and you are a long time on the red before even breaking even.
And even though cattle do well on their own they do need to be watched. There are not many who do not patrol every day and every evening when calving season comes. You going to give up vacation for this? Will mom and kids (if you are hitched?)
That is why I am not a proponent of folks on hard times or of folks who "commute" getting into cattle. Especially if you are going to do it in a small way.
It costs more than you will make more often than not. There is a big - no huge TIME committment that has not been factored in. There is an up front cost and a big one.
There is no cash flow - it is a one payday scenario.
There are other ways to do it and make money.
Now if you are doing this to grow one or two and have fun or even just eat your own - I say go for it. But even growing one or two for your own freezer on average I would bet costs a lot folks more than simply buying meat on sale day.
I just know that someone is going to take me to task and nit pick a number or two.
But in fact I am quite close on this considering I have spent a grand total of about 10 minutes formulating the plan for you. I assure you it took me far longer to type it - but it is reasonable. Not exact but pretty close.
You can take it for what it is worth and remember - Have your pencil completed first and have your schitzen together or you will lose your shirt.
Costs will continue to rise - as will your personal time committments - but cattle prices may not.
Best regards,
Bez>
;-) . It has been a loooong last couple days. Started out Wed night, up til 1AM messing with various cows for various reasons. Then, Thursday worked at the stockyards. Nothing like sitting on a horse 14 hours penning 3500 yearlings! And finally the Sale today. Add on counting/sorting all morning, and the sale itself took 4 hours. I should go to bed now.......
