What would everyone else do?

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plumber_greg

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Didn't know what other board to ask this question on, so here goes. Just this morning I was given the option of using 440 acres of prime grass, as well as all the corrals, barns, etc., for free. No rent, no taxes, just have at it. It belongs to my uncle, he is at a time in his life when the cows have got to go. He doesn't need any money, and wants no one on his property renting it. His kids care nothing about cows, and don't need any money either. I am aware of the possiblilty of family problems in a deal like this, however, my uncle has been like my father for 35 years. So with no politics involved, what options are open for me? My own cow herd numbers 120 head, I have a full time job with the plumbing business, and all the money needed will be borrowed at 6 percent. I will have to borrow every penny for the purchase of the animals, but probably can pay for the day to day expenses. Would you buy pairs, yearling replacments, or nothing? I am not really interested in a stocker operation, because of the time constraints of my job. I don't want to buy cows to calve, because my busy time is now starting and I don't have time to take the proper care of them. If I cut the hay and pasture cows, I could probably run 100 head of cows and calves, maybe two potloads of heifers and sell some hay. I am sure this is not enough information, but I am tired of typing. What would y'all do? Thanks for your thoughts. gs
 

1982vett

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Just off the top, How about buying some good exposed or open heifers, put a bull on them to resell in the fall replacement sales. You are not dealing with sick calves, not calving cows, and if you sell them in the fall you are not wintering cattle. I'm sure the place probably has some good hay meadows that you could have someone custom bale and sell the hay. Sound like a real nice opportunity.
 

peg4x4

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BTW,just to cover your a$$,get it in writeing.. Those "kids"may not care now-but later,look out!


Yeah,I'm gunshy...
 

chrisy

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yeah I'd agree with Peg, get something down on paper and signed by your Uncle and his Children before starting anything, to guard your back in the future.
 

bigbull338

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id do 1 or 2 things with a place like that.1 if you need hay id bale it once.then let it grow an turn some cows in on it.2buy some bred cows or pairs to put on the place.id jump on running the place.
 

KNERSIE

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If you uncle's cattle hasn't been sold yet why not top his herd and just buy his very best cows, that way you'll know what you buy and the animals will be well adpated to the conditions as well as know the corral setup?
 
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plumber_greg

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Some people don't really understand what contentment is. Part of that is not living for the almighty dollar. Most written agreements are worth what the ink on the paper is worth. If the kids change their mind, I'll either pay them or sell out. What else would you have me do? Sue them? I have taken a lot to people to court, won, and it's still my job to collect. Our court system has no way to collect small amounts of money. If someone ever takes you to small claims, just ignore it. There is nothing they can do to you. Been on the winning end of that too many times, garnished wages, and got four dollars a month till I was tired of screwing with it. Thanks for the advice on buying his cows. I thought about it, but they really don't fit in with my own. I send mine to a feedlot and they would have to be sold differently. I sell on a grid and would take a beating, like I did on mine, until I got things right. I will buy cows that will fit my operation. They will cost more, but I am more about building equity for retirment than needing money for living. That is one reason I don't think I want to buy and sell and trade cattle. Just my thoughts, thanks for yours. gs
 

3waycross

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plumber_greg":x4hxhuhr said:
Some people don't really understand what contentment is. Part of that is not living for the almighty dollar. Most written agreements are worth what the ink on the paper is worth. If the kids change their mind, I'll either pay them or sell out. What else would you have me do? Sue them? I have taken a lot to people to court, won, and it's still my job to collect. Our court system has no way to collect small amounts of money. If someone ever takes you to small claims, just ignore it. There is nothing they can do to you. Been on the winning end of that too many times, garnished wages, and got four dollars a month till I was tired of screwing with it. Thanks for the advice on buying his cows. I thought about it, but they really don't fit in with my own. I send mine to a feedlot and they would have to be sold differently. I sell on a grid and would take a beating, like I did on mine, until I got things right. I will buy cows that will fit my operation. They will cost more, but I am more about building equity for retirment than needing money for living. That is one reason I don't think I want to buy and sell and trade cattle. Just my thoughts, thanks for yours. gs

If you already have the answers why are you asking people here for advice.

Do what you were gonna do anyway.
 

HOSS

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I would not borrow money to buy cows. Too risky and I don't like any kind of debt. I would cut all the hay I could and sell it except what you need for your own herd. I would use the proceeds from the hay sales to buy cattle. Start slow and build it debt free. I would use the down time to repair any fencing, clear drainages, fix corrals etc. If you need to redo pastures on your own place I would move your cows over and redo those pastures. The cattle business is so volatile I would be very leery about borrowing money against it. JMHO
 

Bez+

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You said you have time constraints - so why bother with more time consumers?

Move the cows over to his place - fix your own up real nice. Then move them back.

Never borrow money to buy cows.

Borrow the money to buy his land out from under him instead. Even if you have to do it a piece at a time.

Invest nothing extra in his land until it is your land.

You''ll do what you want - but beware of family - great to have around until they think you got a leg up on them.

In the end someone will want something for your freebie - sooner or later it will come to that.

Hmmmm .... I am starting to sound like Hoss and 3Way - I better go see if I am OK! :D

Bez+
 

alacattleman

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sound's like a he!# of a offer...the only problem i see is the family get that ironed out and your off.... gonna suck when you running along, and one of em throws a wrench in the works
 
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plumber_greg

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Thanks, I meant to offend on one with any comments. I really wanted to talk options of cattle instead of family perils. I am well aware of them. I would give all my cattle away and go broke before I would fight with a family member over a dollar. I do have time constraints, however, I am one of those people who can't relax. That's the problem with fixing my place up. Been doin' that for 30 years, not much fixing to do. If I get too pressed for time, I know some employees that I can turn into cowboys. The problem in buying his land is his kids will probably donate to the Mo. Dept. of Conservation when he dies, anyway they say that's what they want to do. Back to cattle, someone said to buy open cows and heifers and sell in the fall. At first, I thought not interested, but then mulled it over more. When I lose a calf, I usually sell the cow soon afterward. The heifers sell really good. I don't get to spend much time at auctions, is this what they call heiferetts? Are they goin' to the feedyards or back out to be bred? If I want to buy 120-150 head in the next month, will that be hard to do? Has anyone done this, heifers and cows, and what problems did you have, if any? What do you think about keeping them and building a herd? I have about decided to not send any of this bunch to the feedlot. This whole deal is lasting for an indefinite time, and needs to stay somewhat liquid. My biggest fear is being upside down and having to sell. That's why it will be hard to start small and build. Love my uncle, trying to make a three year plan, and hoping it lasts 20, he'd be way over a hundred. If I bought pairs, with the intention of keeping them for the duration, would you buy older, cheaper, or young,higher, animals? Remember, I am trying to build equity, instead of income. When I sell, I'll cross the tax liability then. Our pastures are usually turned into May first, so I need to be getting on the stick. Thanks for all your help, and I promise, I do not have all the answers, and I value every opinion. gs
 

Bez+

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plumber_greg":h3d2v5wu said:
Thanks, I meant to offend on one with any comments. I really wanted to talk options of cattle instead of family perils. I am well aware of them. I would give all my cattle away and go broke before I would fight with a family member over a dollar. I do have time constraints, however, I am one of those people who can't relax. That's the problem with fixing my place up. Been doin' that for 30 years, not much fixing to do. If I get too pressed for time, I know some employees that I can turn into cowboys. The problem in buying his land is his kids will probably donate to the Mo. Dept. of Conservation when he dies, anyway they say that's what they want to do. Back to cattle, someone said to buy open cows and heifers and sell in the fall. At first, I thought not interested, but then mulled it over more. When I lose a calf, I usually sell the cow soon afterward. The heifers sell really good. I don't get to spend much time at auctions, is this what they call heiferetts? Are they goin' to the feedyards or back out to be bred? If I want to buy 120-150 head in the next month, will that be hard to do? Has anyone done this, heifers and cows, and what problems did you have, if any? What do you think about keeping them and building a herd? I have about decided to not send any of this bunch to the feedlot. This whole deal is lasting for an indefinite time, and needs to stay somewhat liquid. My biggest fear is being upside down and having to sell. That's why it will be hard to start small and build. Love my uncle, trying to make a three year plan, and hoping it lasts 20, he'd be way over a hundred. If I bought pairs, with the intention of keeping them for the duration, would you buy older, cheaper, or young,higher, animals? Remember, I am trying to build equity, instead of income. When I sell, I'll cross the tax liability then. Our pastures are usually turned into May first, so I need to be getting on the stick. Thanks for all your help, and I promise, I do not have all the answers, and I value every opinion. gs

You are asking so many questions I think you need to sit back and take a breather.

You can get ten times the answers to those questions and that will just bring on more questions and then cause more "deep thinking".

Upside down comes from borrowing. Your biggest fear.

Then walk for now - the land will not go bad and you do not have to go into debt - that is what kills most deals.

You really have a herd of 120 animals? Not calling you down - but you must have an idea of what would work just from your own background if you do. Or did I just read this thread wrong - admittedly a fast scan only.

You are likely a pretty big player in your own area.

Go and buy the land instead. If you can. Even a piece of it. That is the only debt I will accept any more - otherwise it is cash only.

Good luck and regards - time is always your enemy - talk to the Uncle about all this.

My best

Bez+
 
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plumber_greg

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Thanks to everyone, reading your input, a couple of PM and personal phone calls, I made a decision. I am going to buy some fall calvers. That way I can cut hay, pasture the cows, and have enough feed for the winter. Things will either work out or they won't, but I am gonna' give it my best shot. Maybe I'll figure out my camera and post some pic. Thanks to everyone, gs
 
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