What is the job worth?

[Nesikep]

If they found someone, that's great.
Looking at it from the business side of it, and how they've been running it, and assuming that they don't pay all their grazing fees out to the manager, Can they afford to half their stocking rate by being cheap and not hiring a good herdsman that allows them to stock at higher numbers?

 

[Aaron]

If they found someone, that's great.
Looking at it from the business side of it, and how they've been running it, and assuming that they don't pay all their grazing fees out to the manager, Can they afford to half their stocking rate by being cheap and not hiring a good herdsman that allows them to stock at higher numbers?

Well after the drought last year, they plan to cut numbers 15%. So it will be under 300 pairs on pasture this year.

Got a long road to get back to 700 pairs.

 

[Aaron]

Update:

So apparently the older fellow that was approached to manage it told the board they were 30k short on wages. He contacted two community pastures in SK that were similar size and number of head. One pasture paid 44k and the other 46k for 6 month contract. He gave contact info to the board so they can confirm those numbers. The community pastures out west said if they don't pay those wages they don't get anyone credible to even apply because there is no shortage of well-paying jobs to be had.

And here people thought I was out to lunch on wage. Oh to be a fly on the wall when the board meets up to discuss this new information.

 

[Brute 23]

Update:

So apparently the older fellow that was approached to manage it told the board they were 30k short on wages. He contacted two community pastures in SK that were similar size and number of head. One pasture paid 44k and the other 46k for 6 month contract. He gave contact info to the board so they can confirm those numbers. The community pastures out west said if they don't pay those wages they don't get anyone credible to even apply because there is no shortage of well-paying jobs to be had.

And here people thought I was out to lunch on wage. Oh to be a fly on the wall when the board meets up to discuss this new information.

That cant be. Apparently all those people "dont know". Refer them to the enet so the can get right.

 

[Lee VanRoss]

Update:

So apparently the older fellow that was approached to manage it told the board they were 30k short on wages. He contacted two community pastures in SK that were similar size and number of head. One pasture paid 44k and the other 46k for 6 month contract. He gave contact info to the board so they can confirm those numbers. The community pastures out west said if they don't pay those wages they don't get anyone credible to even apply because there is no shortage of well-paying jobs to be had.

And here people thought I was out to lunch on wage. Oh to be a fly on the wall when the board meets up to discuss this new information.

My question is, If you have no skin in the game why are you so hung up on this? Forgive me if I missed something here.

 

[Aaron]

My question is, If you have no skin in the game why are you so hung up on this? Forgive me if I missed something here.

Interesting to me how others view the situation, and in order to do that, I have to give as much info to fill in the blanks.

The only game I regularly have skin in is likely the weather, and talking about that gets old quick.

Plus small town life, no one has died lately and no one has been caught cheating on their spouse lately...so it's been a slow month for news in town.

Oh, other than a local Mennonite farmer that pulled out onto the highway with an excavator bucket in his pickup. Bucket slid and landed on opposite lane of highway just as loaded pulp truck was headed in other direction. Ripped the front axle from underneath the truck and truck tipped and flew sideways into ditch. Driver was lucky to survive. Truck and trailer completely totalled.

 

[Son of Butch]

cow revenue $750
550 lb calf x 1.50* = $825 x 91%* = 750
9% loss of market calves due to open cows 7% and calf survival 2% = 91%*
imo 1.50* is a strong price for 50/50 heifer/bull calf crop

expenses $540
$365* feed/mineral cost per cow per year
100 for cow depreciation and interest
30 breeding
30 cow/calf for vaccinations, castration, medical vet expenses and trucking
15 marketing and commissions
* cost of hay can vary widely, so $365 yr is a conservative estimate imo

750 - 540 = $210 gross return per cow before labor expenses
330 cows x 210 = 69,300 gross

Is it wrong to determine labor affordability based on cow revenue?
Should it be by the acre?

 

[callmefence]

I would be interested in the increase production realized by the the new 44,000 part-time gate opener. Of course maybe not. Seems like a rigged game.

 

[J+ Cattle]

Is it wrong to determine labor affordability based on cow revenue?

I understand that you're calculating how much is affordable, but things cost what they cost. Do the fertilizer, fuel and chemical companies set their prices with how much you can afford to pay in mind or is it based on their costs? Agricultural products are viewed as commodities and as such have little pricing power, unless you're able to name your price and stick with it you will get squeezed in the middle every time.
As producers we do many things without counting the cost of our own labor but is it right to expect it of others when it's for our benefit?

 

[Allenw]

The labor market has changed drastically in the last year with jobs going unfilled, reliable and trainable employees are in demand. No employer should take their employees for granted right now.

 

[Allenw]

The job being talked about should all ready be included in the grazing association fees as part of the expenses.

 

[J+ Cattle]

It could be a summer job for a high school student if all they want is a "gate opener" without any knowledge of caring for the cattle. Tell the livestock owners, it's grazing only and they're responsible for their own care.

 

[Brute 23]

cow revenue $750
550 lb calf x 1.50* = $825 x 91%* = 750
9% loss of market calves due to open cows 7% and calf survival 2% = 91%*
imo 1.50* is a strong price for 50/50 heifer/bull calf crop

expenses $540
$365* feed/mineral cost per cow per year
100 for cow depreciation and interest
30 breeding
30 cow/calf for vaccinations, castration, medical vet expenses and trucking
15 marketing and commissions
* cost of hay can vary widely, so $365 yr is a conservative estimate imo

750 - 540 = $210 gross return per cow before labor expenses
330 cows x 210 = 69,300 gross

Is it wrong to determine labor affordability based on cow revenue?
Should it be by the acre?

Ask callmefence if he charges to build fence based on his costs to make money or based on how much money the person makes off their cows who wants the fence built.

 

[Son of Butch]

I understand that you're calculating how much is affordable, but things cost what they cost.

Isn't the question; what is this job worth?
Gross revenue: 69,300 (86,036 cad)
Give me half $34,650 (43,016 cad) seems to me to be the wrong answer.
Hasn't anyone here ever run a business?

I find it hard to believe 2 other pastures are paying 44-46k for a 6 month contract for part time labor.
$75 hour x 18 hr wk for 26 wks = $35,100 or $93 hour cad (43,577 cad)
At what point do you say, Here you buy the herd and I'll shepherd them from pasture to pasture for you.

$45,000 for 6 month contract sounds more like the pasture lease, not labor.
$20 a month for 6 months = 120 hd
120 x 375 cows = 45,000

 

[Son of Butch]

The labor market has changed drastically in the last year with jobs going unfilled, reliable and trainable employees are in demand.

A part time shepherd is not worth $75 hour.

 

[callmefence]

The labor market has changed drastically in the last year with jobs going unfilled, reliable and trainable employees are in demand. No employer should take their employees for granted right now.

That's exactly right. But no employer should be allowing employees to bully their way into a wage that is not sustainable. If you do you will fall and no one has a job.

Ask callmefence if he charges to build fence based on his costs to make money or based on how much money the person makes off their cows who wants the fence.

If butch ask I'll answer. But it has nothing to do with the discussion.

 

[Brute 23]

it's exactly the same. To quote the man himself... every body works for some body. We all have to negotiate wages one way or another... no matter which side you are on or of its both sides.

 

[callmefence]

it's exactly the same. To quote the man himself... every body works for some body. We all have to negotiate wages one way or another... no matter which side you are on or of its both sides.

No buying a product. A long term investment at a one time expense is not the same thing as hiring a employee. Not even close.

 

[Brute 23]

They are exactly the same for me. Different formula to calculate their worth but the same. Good fences and good employees make for good production. Don't go cheap on either. Both are an investment in our business.

 

[J+ Cattle]

Isn't the question; what is this job worth?

Yes, but there's two sides to that coin...what is it worth to the employer and what is it worth to the employee. Without an agreement between both parties no work takes place. As an employee, if I can get more for my time/labor/knowledge/experience somewhere else, why should I take less?
Providing for my household is a business too.

If the employer doesn't want to pay the going wage rate, they may need to lower the job requirements to get someone with less knowledge or experience, the previously mentioned "gate opener".