What do you look for?

[DiamondSCattleCo]

The cow muscle thread just got me curious. What do you look for in a bull? A cow? I'm more talking about conformation than EPDs, although please feel free to post any numbers; BW, EPD or otherwise. And why do you look for those particular traits.

Its 2am here, so I'll stuff my thoughts up tomorrow morning, but I wanted to start the thread off while I was thinking about it.

Rod

 

[SEC]

Masculine, bulls, large scrotal, feet (major priority) and the most important trait of all..a great mother.

Good cows produce good bulls, to know nothing of the cow family or to have not seen the mother to the herdbulls may be a costly mistake. If you travel through enough herds you realize that there are cows out there that certainly shouldn't be the mother to herdbulls.
All traits need to be middle of the road for breeding balance. The common addage of fleshing ability, excellent conformation etc is an absolute given.

I am not sure what you guys see in the south, but in Canada there is a demand for power bulls, not freaks or extremes, old fashioned bulls with jam. In my mind there are not many breeders that produce power bulls on a consistent basis for the herd or even amongst a sire group. Geography seems to dictate where these power bulls come from as in the shortgrass country it is slim picking looking for power bulls, mostly because commercial producers are more bwt conscious.

 

[DiamondSCattleCo]

:lol: Lots of takers on this one. Ok, here goes. For those who get the Canadian Shorthorn Report, this will likely look familiar. There was an excellent article in the Fall copy that described almost to a T my idea of the perfect cow, and the author did a much better job of describing things than I ever could.

Cow:

- Good feet. Claws of similar size that point ahead. Should be some space between them. Hoof should have some depth on the back part, and the pastern needs to have some flex to it to provide cushion when walking.

- I want to see the legs under the cow. When she stands, I don't want to see the back legs sticking out at an angle like a show horse.

- tail head not attached too far forward. I like to see the tail hanging straight down, not curved around. This usually means the anus is positioned too far foward and there can be fecal contamination in the vulva. The anus should be straight up from the vulva.

- The pins should be lower than the hooks. There have been studies that show a negative correlation between between high pins and calving interval. Over the years, the pins will rise slightly on each calving. Get them too high, and the animal stands a greater chance of coming in open. Also, the higher the pins, the more likely an animal is to stand with her legs behind her.

- I want some space between the pins. More space here generally means more room in the birthing canal. I also want some space between the hooks and pins.

- Generally, I want to see some overall width and length in the hind end. I breed Shorthorns and the shows ruined the good beef shorthorns by reducing muscling and width. The Shorthorn breed in general doesn't have a problem with maternal traits, so increasing muscling in the hind end is not going to harm our milking or fertility. Not too much muscling though. I don't want my cows looking like bulls. Its all about balance.

- I want both depth and width throughout. On my ranch, it gets cool in the winter, so they need some rib for fat storage. I like to see a healthy amount of brisket as well.

- The neck should flow smoothy into the shoulders and then thicken up quickly into the ribs, ending in a solid hind end. If the hind end is smaller than the front quarters, I don't want the animal.

- a good bag is a given. I don't hunt for huge bags or lots of milk, as I've found that cows that don't deliver as much milk will often deliver higher quality milk. Again, its all about balance.

Bulls later....

 

[DiamondSCattleCo]

Bulls

- See above, vis-a-vis feet. I want to see the bull collect himself when he walks. It means he'll be able to breed a large variety of frame size cows due to balance. My herd sire is the best walking bull I've ever seen. He's weighing in around 2600 lbs now, and he's bred everything from a 500 weight heifer (accident on the ranch I bough him from) up to my biggest cow (about 1600 lbs, not large).

- Testicles need to be even, hanging straight in a large sac. Do the herd research, and don't choose a bull with smaller than average testicles for the breed. Large testicles have been correlated with milk and fertility. The sheath should be close to the body, not hanging loose.

- A good bull needs to be masculine, and there needs to be a crest on his neck. Like the cows, I want a wedge shape. An angular head and smooth neck flowing into the front shoulders. If you're going to run the bull as a terminal sire, he can be blockier, if your cows can handle it. I want some rib, both width and depth. I won't let a bull on the place if his leg length is equal to his depth. There must be more rib. I actually prefer about 1/3 leg, 2/3 rib although some think this is excessive. If the bull has good length, I'll forgive a little bit of missing rib as my cows have plenty. I also want to see a thick hind end.

I'm sure theres more that I missed, but thats a start.

Rod

 

[DOC HARRIS]

Bulls

- See above, vis-a-vis feet. I want to see the bull collect himself when he walks. It means he'll be able to breed a large variety of frame size cows due to balance. My herd sire is the best walking bull I've ever seen. He's weighing in around 2600 lbs now, and he's bred everything from a 500 weight heifer (accident on the ranch I bough him from) up to my biggest cow (about 1600 lbs, not large).

- Testicles need to be even, hanging straight in a large sac. Do the herd research, and don't choose a bull with smaller than average testicles for the breed. Large testicles have been correlated with milk and fertility. The sheath should be close to the body, not hanging loose.

- A good bull needs to be masculine, and there needs to be a crest on his neck. Like the cows, I want a wedge shape. An angular head and smooth neck flowing into the front shoulders. If you're going to run the bull as a terminal sire, he can be blockier, if your cows can handle it. I want some rib, both width and depth. I won't let a bull on the place if his leg length is equal to his depth. There must be more rib. I actually prefer about 1/3 leg, 2/3 rib although some think this is excessive. If the bull has good length, I'll forgive a little bit of missing rib as my cows have plenty. I also want to see a thick hind end.

I'm sure theres more that I missed, but thats a start.

Rod

Rod-This is more than a start! For phenotype observations this is very well done - the details in explaining WHY the selections and choices were made are very educational - for both cows and bulls.

DOC HARRIS