what breed to cross longhorns with for best replacement

[Rustler9]

WORANCH-I agree, we see cattle marketed as Longhorn all over the pages of the Breed publications that are very obviously diluted with other genetics. In the show world there's been other beefier breeds thrown in to size em up. In the horn part of the deal we now see cattle that sure have alot of Watusi character, I'm sure this happens in all breeds. Not a good thing.

 

[Newmex2010]

We have used Longhorns at the elevation of 6000 feet in New Mexico four generations and we have found that black Angus bulls will breed out the color rather quickly. Have to be registered though. Herefords will keep the red in color which is undesirable to most buyers in most markets. At least with a black bull you are on your way to a solid black colored cow in time to come. You cant find a cross any better. A longhorn cow will get out in the mountains and work to find food. They are small in size, not requiring a high input and though they have a smaller gross selling income on there calves. You usually end up with a bigger profit margin then most. If you want to breed the horns out and keep the longhorn influence registered red angus bulls will most likely be the best result in producing a replacement heifer. They tend to gett rid of the horns genetically.

 

[ALACOWMAN]

We have used Longhorns at the elevation of 6000 feet in New Mexico four generations and we have found that black Angus bulls will breed out the color rather quickly. Have to be registered though. Herefords will keep the red in color which is undesirable to most buyers in most markets. At least with a black bull you are on your way to a solid black colored cow in time to come. You cant find a cross any better. A longhorn cow will get out in the mountains and work to find food. They are small in size, not requiring a high input and though they have a smaller gross selling income on there calves. You usually end up with a bigger profit margin then most. If you want to breed the horns out and keep the longhorn influence registered red angus bulls will most likely be the best result in producing a replacement heifer. They tend to gett rid of the horns genetically.

being registerd dont have much to do with it

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

We have used Longhorns at the elevation of 6000 feet in New Mexico four generations and we have found that black Angus bulls will breed out the color rather quickly. Have to be registered though. Herefords will keep the red in color which is undesirable to most buyers in most markets. At least with a black bull you are on your way to a solid black colored cow in time to come. You cant find a cross any better. A longhorn cow will get out in the mountains and work to find food. They are small in size, not requiring a high input and though they have a smaller gross selling income on there calves. You usually end up with a bigger profit margin then most. If you want to breed the horns out and keep the longhorn influence registered red angus bulls will most likely be the best result in producing a replacement heifer. They tend to gett rid of the horns genetically.

ANY homozygous polled bull will get rid of the horns. ALL Black Angus & Red Angus, and most Simmental & a lot of others are homozygous polled. All BA (registered or not - as long as they are truly BA) will make the first cross black.
I understand what you are saying about LH - they fit a nitch environment better than some cattle.

 

[kenny thomas]

We have used Longhorns at the elevation of 6000 feet in New Mexico four generations and we have found that black Angus bulls will breed out the color rather quickly. Have to be registered though. Herefords will keep the red in color which is undesirable to most buyers in most markets. At least with a black bull you are on your way to a solid black colored cow in time to come. You cant find a cross any better. A longhorn cow will get out in the mountains and work to find food. They are small in size, not requiring a high input and though they have a smaller gross selling income on there calves. You usually end up with a bigger profit margin then most. If you want to breed the horns out and keep the longhorn influence registered red angus bulls will most likely be the best result in producing a replacement heifer. They tend to gett rid of the horns genetically.

ANY homozygous polled bull will get rid of the horns. ALL Black Angus & Red Angus, and most Simmental & a lot of others are homozygous polled. All BA (registered or not - as long as they are truly BA) will make the first cross black.
I understand what you are saying about LH - they fit a nitch environment better than some cattle.

Jeanne, I almost never disagree with you on anything but this time I must partially disagree. With longhorn even the registered BA bulls will not always make then totally black or BWF. They should not have any red but they very well can have spots. As I have discussed with you my homo Black Simmy bulls will not throw red but I sometimes get very spotted calves. This has to do with how the solid color of the longhorn cow is. The more consistant the cow color is the more chance the calf will be black. I have one LH now that is mostly white with a little spotting and her calf is solid black and polled.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

Kenny
You are TOTALLY correct - the first cross will make them Black FACTORED (I should have been more clear about that). In other words, they will NOT be red. But, yes, the spots, speckles, roaning, etc will/can still be there. Not sure how dominant they are. With Simmental, the spots are recessive genes, so you can remove with two breedings (back to a non spot carrier). LH speckles might be dominant????

 

[KMacGinley]

This may be of interest to some of you...

http://kcorner.bigboardlive.com/t163-lo ... utte-ranch

 

[houstoncutter]

I have read this thread with great interest. Reason being, if I get back in the cattle biz Longhorns may be a part of the herd. I would have to raise my own heifers as I would never find what I was looking for otherwise. With that in mind i think I would use a Gelbvieh bull on Longhorn cows. You would retain and even add to the mothering ability also Gelbvieh are a very docile breed. Most longhorns that i have dealt with are docile as well. You should also increase your meat quality with this cross. In short you should have a 1000 lb cow that can and will live off the land .

I understand that this makes no sense in other parts of the country were the grazing conditions are not so tough. We are discounted in the south for our cattle. Rightly or wrongly, it just happens. We dont take a discount on our cattle in the early spring when weaned calves are in short supply. Otherwise cattle buyers consider cattle from the south to have to have ear or longhorn breeding somewhere in their blood lines. So I say give them what they are paying for.

For a terminal cross on the cattle I have considered using Limousin. Most likely because I have had a lot of experiance with them, mostly good, some bad. The modern Limi bull does not have the muscle mass that I seek anymore, so I have been looking at the Belgian Blues.

As our drought here in Texas is pointing out, we are going to have to relearn some old livestock skills. The main one being how to raise animal with little or no hay and no supplements. We have less cattle than we did in the 50's or 60's, but we still are raising the same poundage of finished beef. Some of this weight is due to genetic changes but I dare say, most of this weight gain is due to the increased use of man made products. It is the increased costs of these supplements that is putting many cattlemen in the red. Our fathers and grandfathers managed to raise beef without all the supplements here in the deep south. So we better get busy talking to them ,if your lucky enough to have them around. Have a blessed Easter morning

 

[Agtopper]

I have been following this post closely also. I made a trade for a group of longhorn cows, mostly heifers with a couple first calf pairs. I have been trying to determine what to breed these to and am leaning towards Charolais, seems this is most likely to give some uniformity to the calves. I had been thinking about some type of homozygous black bull but it doesn't sound like it helps with color. Like to hear from anyone that raises commercial Longhorn X cattle. Not alot of Longhorns in Western Ky.

 

[BC]

For a terminal cross on the cattle I have considered using Limousin. Most likely because I have had a lot of experiance with them, mostly good, some bad. The modern Limi bull does not have the muscle mass that I seek anymore, so I have been looking at the Belgian Blues.

If I may ask, what is wrong with the modern Limi bull? The breeders seem to have worked to produce seed stock that would not produce those quarterhorse looking calves that many of the old style Limi bulls would sire.

 

[DOC HARRIS]

houstoncutter-

"For a terminal cross on the cattle I have considered using Limousin. Most likely because I have had a lot of experiance with them, mostly good, some bad. The modern Limi bull does not have the muscle mass that I seek anymore, so I have been looking at the Belgian Blues

If I understand you correctly, you are considering getting back into the cattle business - which leads me to assume that you are not currently engaged in the breeding of beef cattle? Is that right? If that is correct, your comment regarding Belgian Blues tells me that you are using "Muscle Mass" as the only "Single Trait Selection" protocol for your seedstock selection choices in the acquisition of your new herd! What, then, are your expectations as to how long it will take for you to build a breeding herd that will consistently produce well-balanced terminal prospects to meet your goals?

DOC HARRIS

 

[Red Bull Breeder]

Doc sometimes you need to read before you write.

 

[haase]

Cmon RBB, Limi and Belgian Blues there almost spelled the same.

 

[3waycross]

I fail to see what Doc got wrong here . Maybe some can explain it.

 

[DOC HARRIS]

Doc sometimes you need to read before you write.

-
RBB-

I try! "Reading" is one form of interpretation. "Understanding" is the culmination of knowing what is read. Perhaps I did not understand the 'focal point' of selection choices! The 'operative' word in my post is " currently".

I have been mis-interpreted in the past. Mis-interpreted or misunderstood is a moot subject. "Single Trait Selection" methods of genetic choices is a questionable method of building a profitable business in any case.

Your choice.

DOC HARRIS

 

[houstoncutter]

houstoncutter-

"For a -terminal cross on the cattle I have considered using Limousin. Most likely because I have had a lot of experiance with them, mostly good, some bad. The modern Limi bull does not have the muscle mass that I seek anymore, so I have been looking at the Belgian Blues

If I understand you correctly, you are considering getting back into the cattle business - which leads me to assume that you are not currently engaged in the breeding of beef cattle? Is that right? If that is correct, your comment regarding Belgian Blues tells me that you are using "Muscle Mass" as the only "Single Trait Selection" protocol for your seedstock selection choices in the acquisition of your new herd! What, then, are your expectations as to how long it will take for you to build a breeding herd that will consistently produce well-balanced terminal prospects to meet your goals?

DOC HARRIS

Doc perhaps I am not on the same page as you, but if you will read the above quote . It says" For a terminal cross" and so on so forth. To me Doc that means all calves are terminal, heifers and bulls alike. Yes I am after a single trait selection and it is muscle, because I will be using F-1's mommas that may be lacking somewhat in muscle, but not in hustle....and yes your are correct I am out of the business right now....and darn glad I am, for I fear we are on the brink of total devestation of the cattle herd here in Texas. When people start praying for a hurricane in April...you know its bad

 

[houstoncutter]

For a terminal cross on the cattle I have considered using Limousin. Most likely because I have had a lot of experiance with them, mostly good, some bad. The modern Limi bull does not have the muscle mass that I seek anymore, so I have been looking at the Belgian Blues.

If I may ask, what is wrong with the modern Limi bull? The breeders seem to have worked to produce seed stock that would not produce those quarterhorse looking calves that many of the old style Limi bulls would sire.

http://www.semenstore.co.uk/view-bull/tony/45/muscle/

Bc, 25 years ago this is what many limi bulls looked liked, except some of them did not have the excellant scrotal that this fella has, That type of bull being crossed on raw bone cows can make your calf crop bell ringers...If there is not something wrong with the modern Limi bulls, why do you think Chars have made such inroads with commercial breeders?

 

[slick4591]

Okay, HC, I'm gonna ask simply because I'm still learning, but why wouldn't Piedmontese help solve your muscle problem?

 

[houstoncutter]

Slick4591, Piedmontese maybe another route for me consider as well. I just happen to know a couple Of Belgian Blue breeders. I am looking for the extra muscle that I now longer able to find in Limis....and this isnt a plow on limis moment....just about all of the breeds these days have bulls that look like steers.

 

[slick4591]

Thanks. Just don't see them mentioned around here and was wondering if there was a reason. I know some of my friends are turned off because of the light bone.