Wagyu bloodlines ? Where to buy straws ?

[Richnm]

Asking for a friend ( before I get pummeled ). He wants to ai an angus cow to a Wagyu and use a Wagyu/ Angus bull as a clean up and sell the beef to family etc. He asked me what bloodlines to use and where to get the straws. Can someone point him in the right direction ?

 

[Stickney94]

ABS and OriGen both carry a number of solid wagyu sires. If "your friend" wants learn about bloodlines and breeding details go to the Lone Mountain Cattle website (lonemountaincattle.com). That site has info and a breeding guide that is pretty well done.

Both OriGend and ABS have write ups on the sires (ABS Australia has better ones than ABS USA).

 

[Ebenezer]

Just use a high marbling GAR bull. Their selection for the trait is driving the phenotype.

 

[Mountaintown Creek Ranch]

Do you know what breed it is ?
Wagyu is not a breed.
I would say that it depends on what genetics he needs.
Does he need a better milker better maternal etc it's not always about marbling.
We have straws from many high pedigree bulls each one chosen for what they contribute to the genetics. We use a progeny calculator to predict the the results that we are looking for.
Most of our straws are bought at auctions they have a couple every month.

 

[Richnm]

Do you know what breed it is ?
Wagyu is not a breed.
I would say that it depends on what genetics he needs.
Does he need a better milker better maternal etc it's not always about marbling.
We have straws from many high pedigree bulls each one chosen for what they contribute to the genetics. We use a progeny calculator to predict the the results that we are looking for.
Most of our straws are bought at auctions they have a couple every month.

His exact words " he wants BOSS steaks". So I guess high marbling

 

[Stickney94]

His exact words " he wants BOSS steaks". So I guess high marbling

If he's just looking for high quality meat -- either Japanese Black or Japanese Red wagyu sires would work. OriGEN has a selection of both. There are countless private treaty ranches as well.
Speaking from experience -- wagyu x angus cross cattle marble very well. Some crosses are better than others (flavor, marbling, tenderness).

As Ebenezer says -- you can get very good results using angus (I know it was a dig at GAR).

 

[farmerjan]

SelectSire power also has a couple of Wagyu bulls available. Don't know alot about them...

 

[Ebenezer]

If he's just looking for high quality meat -- either Japanese Black or Japanese Red wagyu sires would work. OriGEN has a selection of both. There are countless private treaty ranches as well.
Speaking from experience -- wagyu x angus cross cattle marble very well. Some crosses are better than others (flavor, marbling, tenderness).

As Ebenezer says -- you can get very good results using angus (I know it was a dig at GAR).

Just the way chasing a fad works. Not a dig but an observation of some of the type in their bulls. If you chase terminal traits long enough you develop a type that is terminal. If I were selling a lot of beef directly, they would be a consideration of AI sires. Like a guy said one time, we already have Wagyu so why try to breed Angus to be like them. I know that they have the data and can do what most folks want in a steak. And likely more like most folks want than in some that are too fatty. Common sense isn't too common.

 

[Aero]

As long as your friend isnt planning on pasture finishing them...

 

[Lucky_P]

Do you know what breed it is ?
Wagyu is not a breed.
I would say that it depends on what genetics he needs.
Does he need a better milker better maternal etc it's not always about marbling.
We have straws from many high pedigree bulls each one chosen for what they contribute to the genetics. We use a progeny calculator to predict the the results that we are looking for.
Most of our straws are bought at auctions they have a couple every month.

MCR,
Would you care to comment on the SCD profile? AA vs VV vs AV?
My understanding is that 'A' lends a lower melting point and 'buttery' flavor/mouthfeel... so an AA would be most desirable?

ST Genetics had an Akaushi bull (Red Galaxy) that I'd considered using, at one time... red hide... much better muscling than I'd seen in any black Wagyu...and AA for SCD.

Beef Bull - 203KB01327 - VBV ROA Red Galaxy

Complete Bull Search - 203KB01327 - VBV ROA Red Galaxy - x x -

www.stgen.com

 

[Ebenezer]

GB Fireball 672
AAA 18690054
ABS Global Inc

Marbling +2.29, Acc 0.71, top 1%
75% GAR breeding. Owners in LA and TX.

 

[CSM]

Bovine Elite

 

[Mountaintown Creek Ranch]

MCR,
Would you care to comment on the SCD profile? AA vs VV vs AV?
My understanding is that 'A' lends a lower melting point and 'buttery' flavor/mouthfeel... so an AA would be most desirable?

ST Genetics had an Akaushi bull (Red Galaxy) that I'd considered using, at one time... red hide... much better muscling than I'd seen in any black Wagyu...and AA for SCD.

Beef Bull - 203KB01327 - VBV ROA Red Galaxy

Complete Bull Search - 203KB01327 - VBV ROA Red Galaxy - x x -

www.stgen.com

Yes AA is the most desirable fat profile. Yes it has a slight buttery taste. It melts around 75 degrees.
However, I personally do not like the A 5 level of fat. We do not try to get that far. Our best " taste " appears to be between 7-8 BMS. A couple of grades higher than prime.
BMS higher than that tends to feel greasy in your mouth....just my opinion...they sell that A5 for $100 lb or more... pretty silly if you ask me.
As for preferred genetics....size and marbling is great....but if they are weak at a certain trait that is where I start.
Look for 100% Tajima
Wagyu great bulls :::
Mayura L0010, Suzutani, Michifuku, Arubial Bond, M6 Itogenami, Rueshaw, Brady, Haruki 2, Takamichi Doi, Shigeshigetani, Peppermill Grove.

 

[greybeard]

Look for 100% Tajima

Some interesting commentary at the link below.
(I personally know nothing of Wagyu and have never raised a single one)

Tajima Wagyu history

 

[acefire]

Asking for a friend ( before I get pummeled ). He wants to ai an angus cow to a Wagyu and use a Wagyu/ Angus bull as a clean up and sell the beef to family etc. He asked me what bloodlines to use and where to get the straws. Can someone point him in the right direction ?

There probably is some available in Roswell. I would go with the Reds, (Akaushi) I believe they will finish quicker than the Blacks.
Heartbrand in Texas would have the largest choice.
I know for a fact almost any Akaushi bull will improve your marbling. There will be
replies to that statement, I will guess. It will be from the same people that say it's just a fad. I have seen the difference myself. Longer finishing time, but worth it. Selling it
@ $10.00 hanging weight.
But calling the Waygu market a FAD is like saying the CAB program is a FAD.
Good marketing yes, but it is different.

 

[cowgirl8]

They grow better on feed than they do on pasture or hay. Ours are still growing, very tall breed. They have some leg on them.

 

[J+ Cattle]

GB Fireball 672
AAA 18690054
ABS Global Inc

Marbling +2.29, Acc 0.71, top 1%
75% GAR breeding. Owners in LA and TX.

Haven't looked in a while, but ABS (maybe SS, as well?) used to have online tables listing HD50K results on current and past Angus sires...like this here:

https://www.absglobal.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/27/2022/05/Genomic-scores-5.6.22.pdf

Tenderness score in last column... IDK what the numbers signify, though.

GB Fireball has great marbling numbers but also has the worst numbers for tenderness.

 

[Ebenezer]

Use the ABS chart or something like it to find what you need. To me, to have an Angus cross is a safer bet than to go Wagyu unless you want to buy feed and feed them for a long time. The Angus cross gives more market options. But that's just my 2 cents worth. I just found the bull via the Angus sire search and he was on top of the data heap.

What I do see in catalogs of Angus folks who use the enhanced EPDs are wide ranges of growth, BW, WW, YW, REA, type... even while chasing top numbers. In my pea brain, that tells me that something is not exact. Or else they are not steering enough bull calves.

 

[Stickney94]

Anyone considering crossing Wagyu with X breed and finishing them -- if your cows are good cows that produce solid calves -- crossing with a Wagyu sire won't dramatically change their finishing time. That has been my experience. Yes, I've had some outliers taking a bit longer, but I've had outliers that finished faster as well. In general, they finish in the same time as our PB angus with very similar carcass weights (but better marbling).

 

[Richnm]

Anyone considering crossing Wagyu with X breed and finishing them -- if your cows are good cows that produce solid calves -- crossing with a Wagyu sire won't dramatically change their finishing time. That has been my experience. Yes, I've had some outliers taking a bit longer, but I've had outliers that finished faster as well. In general, they finish in the same time as our PB angus with very similar carcass weights (but better marbling).

Are you using black or reds on your Angus ?