Vet Question...

[machslammer]

The vet is coming out to check several of my crazy now calving cows today...

My question is,
Should I have him go ahead and check the cows that have calves on them now to see if they have re-bred already and can they tell if they are really short bred? Had 4 calves in march and april and not sure if thats just throwing money away with having him check them..

The ones born in march will be 90 days post, and the april would be 60 days- 30 days post calving (last calf born 4/25/13)..
Thanks in advance.

 

[dun]

I would have him do it just for the peace of mind aspect. If they aren;t bred there may be an issue that he could help address and resolve.

 

[machslammer]

The only thing with the last born one is she is only six weeks out and if she is bred last couple weeks can he tell she is bred?

 

[dun]

The only thing with the last born one is she is only six weeks out and if she is bred last couple weeks can he tell she is bred?

Under 45 days bred is pretty much a crapshoot.

 

[cow pollinater]

It also depends on the vet. I have a few that I deal with that can find thirty days consistently and there are some that struggle at fifty days.

 

[Lucky_P]

What cp said.
I never felt comfortable with anything less than 45 days - but rarely had occasion to be 'in' a cow that was shorter-bred than that. Most of 'em I had occasion to palpate(mostly beef cows) when I was in practice... there was no doubt - they were bred, or they weren't.
But, I had a colleague, in the next town over, who'd probably palpated 50-100 dairy cows a day, for 20+ years, and I'd say he was pretty reliable, even as early as 28 days.

 

[machslammer]

Ok... So here's the deal and I have some more questions for you guys that can palpate within that close ect..
Vet checks ~ 200 cows a week at one of the sale barns around here and then at his office as well. He is 73 yrs old and has practiced over 40 yrs.

Have 15 cows.
1) One's calf was only a month old, so I did not have him check her as she may just be a week or two bred or not bred.
2) Had 3 cows that their calves were born from the first of march till the first of april. So, calves 2 to 3 months old. All were checked open. (Some may be bred as he says 2 months bred is a guess and anything that waited till 60-75 days to re-breed he can't tell anyways.
3) One 3 yr old that has never had a calf, I bought at the stock sale (that he checked) last Dec as she was 4 months bred. He checked her yesterday and she was... 3 months bred. Didn't catch till he had let her out. Meant to ask if he was sure she was bred or may have a tumor, ect??
4) Checked one cow that has a 5 month old calf, and she was checked as 6 months bred...?? (HOW'S THAT POSSIBLE??)
5) One old 10+ cow that had a calf in Jan is open and WILL be sold when the calf gets a little bigger. Don't like it's size or her's and has a bad eye.
6) One that I have been watching with no calf since Jan of last year, is only 4 months bred.. Will go to the sale as bred and replaced. Not waiting 2 yrs on her.
7)One was 2 months bred that lost a calf in Feb, so she will be due in Jan at 11 months yay.
7)Two that had calves last Feb and Mar were 6 months. (Will be 17/18 months between calves this time) GRRR.
8)Two that had calves end of Sept and Oct last yr were 6 months bred. (Should be 11-12 months between calves)
9)Two that had calves last April were 6 months. (16 months between)

Now... Sounds like I'm going to have a busy August/Sept/Oct this yr. . But now seeing the trend in what happened with the the longer bred ones. I know the Balancer bull I had put with them was no good as the BSE also said so and he didn't breed jack squat (From July through first of Sept).. However, it took the Hereford bull I put with them (End of Sept) a couple months to put all cows at six months.. So I think part of the re-breeding problem was switching around bulls so much last fall... However, If they had calves in Feb, march, april they should have theoretically rebred by may, june, july.. Gonna sell an older cow, cow that was only 4 months since she will be almost 2 years between and will bring more as bred, and prob see what happens next year. I would really like to see these that are 6 months all have heifer calves and I'd have a heck of a young crop as heifers to breed back in a yr and half.. I need opinions on all this and what would you do? What about the young 3 yr old that has never had a calf and went backwards on months bred? Keep or sell her too?

 

[Dega Moo]

It also depends on the vet. I have a few that I deal with that can find thirty days consistently and there are some that struggle at fifty days.

CP - I recall in an earlier thread that the fertilized egg doesn't attach until around the 35th day. Is there any risk of interrupting that attachment process pregging that early?

 

[cow pollinater]

It also depends on the vet. I have a few that I deal with that can find thirty days consistently and there are some that struggle at fifty days.

CP - I recall in an earlier thread that the fertilized egg doesn't attach until around the 35th day. Is there any risk of interrupting that attachment process pregging that early?

I do see more early embryonic death on cattle that are palpated at thirty days but I also see a lot of oddball heat up to about forty-five days that I attribute to early embryonic death in cows that haven't been checked yet so I can't say that it's a palpation problem. I don't know of any dairies that TRY to find thirty day calves but I do see that diagnosis quite a bit.

 

[cow pollinater]

I need opinions on all this and what would you do? ?

I would get rid of every one that isn't going to calve right when I want them to(regardless of WHY they're not bred up) and replace them with something that will. I would also look for a new vet. I might even find the new vet before I did the culling and find out what I'm really looking at. The heifer that hasn't calved yet is a goner regardless of her reproductive status.

 

[machslammer]

I need opinions on all this and what would you do? ?

I would get rid of every one that isn't going to calve right when I want them to(regardless of WHY they're not bred up) and replace them with something that will. I would also look for a new vet. I might even find the new vet before I did the culling and find out what I'm really looking at. The heifer that hasn't calved yet is a goner regardless of her reproductive status.

Yeah, well I get what your saying with the heifer and I would understand all this better.... BUT.... Went out today and the cow that was supposed to be only four months bred has filled up with milk and looks to be having a calf within a week... and, the heifer that went backwards to four months, her bag has started to drop and her teets were tightening up...

So, now what?? I mean from Thurs to Today, 2 days and both their bags had went from floppy/nonexistant to swollen up/filling with milk. . when both were 3/4 months bred supposedly.. I DUNNO!!

 

[cmf1]

Just a question.
Is an ultra sound /sonogram able to pinpoint months bred accurately with a good tech? Is it all about the quality of the tech, or the machine, or both?
Anybody with real life experience on this?

 

[Fire Sweep Ranch]

I think ultrasound is only good early on. We have all of our recips ultra sounded, I like to know the sex of the calves. Our vet recommends 70 days, with 10 days on either side (60-80) he might be able to tell. I took a cow in to check with a big group, she was 90 days, and the calf was too far in the pelvic region to get a good look at.
I'd really question the vet's ability to preg check.

 

[machslammer]

I think ultrasound is only good early on. We have all of our recips ultra sounded, I like to know the sex of the calves. Our vet recommends 70 days, with 10 days on either side (60-80) he might be able to tell. I took a cow in to check with a big group, she was 90 days, and the calf was too far in the pelvic region to get a good look at.
I'd really question the vet's ability to preg check.

And you would think as many that he checks at the sale barn he would be within a month... I dunno anymore.. And most of my cows that came from there two years ago he was pretty spot on...

 

[TexasBred]

I think ultrasound is only good early on. We have all of our recips ultra sounded, I like to know the sex of the calves. Our vet recommends 70 days, with 10 days on either side (60-80) he might be able to tell. I took a cow in to check with a big group, she was 90 days, and the calf was too far in the pelvic region to get a good look at.
I'd really question the vet's ability to preg check.

And you would think as many that he checks at the sale barn he would be within a month... I dunno anymore.. And most of my cows that came from there two years ago he was pretty spot on...

Sounds like he's just "consistently" off. :shock: If you can ever determine "how much he's off" all the time then all you have to do is make your adj. for error. :lol2:

 

[dun]

Given enough cows there will always be a fooler or 2. We had a couple of cows that the vet always called 40 days shorter bred then they were. All the others (except Granny one year) he was consistantly within a week to 10 days. Granny he was off once by 70 days. Should have heard the crap he got about the 70 day premature calf.

 

[Wyattc02]

73 yrs old and still trying to be a veterinarian may be the problem.

 

[machslammer]

Well one of my 6 month bred as of 6/7, had her calf day before yesterday. And have two more that are bagging up and will prob calve in couple weeks. Pics of new calf. First baldie of the year.

 

[machslammer]

Pic back up

 

[CKC1586]

Pic back up

troll????