question about animal breeding: tribe

[burroughs85]

according to my dictionary, the term has a special meaning for domestic animals as follows:

tribe = in stock breeding, a strain of animals descended from a common female ancestor through the female line

Is there a male equivalent to 'tribe'? What term addresses the male side of things in breeding?

 

[Silver]

I always thought is was just the maternal line and the paternal line, but maybe that’s not specific enough.

 

[burroughs85]

I always thought is was just the maternal line and the paternal line, but maybe that’s not specific enough.

Tribe seems to be a special term addressing the maternal line in the context of stock breeding. I could not find anything on a Google search regarding this term. It might be archaic in that usage.

I once read a book about Labrador retrievers. Supposedly, according to the author, American dog breeders look more closely at the male side of families in regards to quality of litters while Europeans tended to scrutinize the female side of domestic animals. In cattle breeding, the Spaniards had this odd notion that "brave cows beget brave bulls". This is not sound science. Cows bear calves and don't beget them to boot. Both sire and dam contribute equally to the gene pools so both sides should be considered.

 

[Silver]

Tribe seems to be a special term addressing the maternal line in the context of stock breeding. I could not find anything on a Google search regarding this term. It might be archaic in that usage.

I once read a book about Labrador retrievers. Supposedly, according to the author, American dog breeders look more closely at the male side of families in regards to quality of litters while Europeans tended to scrutinize the female side of domestic animals. In cattle breeding, the Spaniards had this odd notion that "brave cows beget brave bulls". This is not sound science. Cows bear calves and don't beget them to boot. Both sire and dam contribute equally to the gene pools so both sides should be considered.

I’d hate to get too far into genetics because it’s above my pay grade but I will give the opinion that while both sides need to be considered it does seem some traits are generally acknowledged to be more likely to be passed down one side or the other. Good specific examples escape me at the moment however.

Edit: it just occurred to me that calving ease is a trait generally believed to be more strongly influenced by the dam’s side of the family.

 

[burroughs85]

I’d hate to get too far into genetics because it’s above my pay grade but I will give the opinion that while both sides need to be considered it does seem some traits are generally acknowledged to be more likely to be passed down one side or the other. Good specific examples escape me at the moment however.

Edit: it just occurred to me that calving ease is a trait generally believed to be more strongly influenced by the dam’s side of the family.

But does a bull inherit his bravery from momma?

 

[wbvs58]

The Spaniards would be breeding them for the bull fights.

Ken

 

[burroughs85]

The Spaniards would be breeding them for the bull fights.

Ken

Yes, the Spaniards thought that the cows influenced their male calves' behavior. The mother raises the calf but a bull gets his male parts from his dad's Y chromosome. The Spaniard's wanted aggressive and fierce bulls in the ring for great showmanship. The bull gets the fight in him from male hormones. Those older European breeders did not understand genetics. Ferdinand must have had a woos for a pappy.

 

[Little Joe]

according to my dictionary, the term has a special meaning for domestic animals as follows:

tribe = in stock breeding, a strain of animals descended from a common female ancestor through the female line

Is there a male equivalent to 'tribe'? What term addresses the male side of things in breeding?

I hear the term "get of sire" in showing. After looking it up wikipedia says the "get" is any offspring derived from any one male animal.

 

[burroughs85]

I hear the term "get of sire" in showing. After looking it up wikipedia says the "get" is any offspring derived from any one male animal.

Here is what my dictionary says of the term GET:

an offspring or the total of the offspring, especially of a male animal: the get of a stallion.

Often in livestock breeding, one male impregnates many females. It's often a polygamous relationship. This occurs a lot in nature with herd animals as deer and moose. I don't think this practice occurs as much with domestic dogs and cats. One has to question the genetic soundness of breeding practices.

GET doesn't really parallel with TRIBE in meaning, however. TRIBE refers to descendants of an entire female line while GET is the sum of the offspring under one male.

It would be interesting to see a calf's or foal's family tree. I suppose this would be a pedigree. Do all livestock have pedigrees in writing? Is each and every head of cattle registered? Also, are cattle sometimes "graded" like dogs are?

Here is another interesting husbandry term:

GRADE = an animal resulting from a cross between a parent of ordinary stock and one of a pure breed

 

[anewcomer]

It takes a masculine bull to make a feminine cow, and vice verse. Study on that a while.

 

[burroughs85]

I suppose in the American beef industry we want cattle that yield a bunch or yummy tender wholesome red meat. And in the dairy cow industry, we want lots of sweet, yummy wholesome milk and cream, masculinity and femininity of bovines aside. The bulls in bullfighting are bred for showmanship, however. The dead bulls that succumb to the sword of the matador are still butchered for meat, perhaps dog food grade.

 

[Allenw]

according to my dictionary, the term has a special meaning for domestic animals as follows:

tribe = in stock breeding, a strain of animals descended from a common female ancestor through the female line

Is there a male equivalent to 'tribe'? What term addresses the male side of things in breeding?

The old timers bred to the female side, good bulls are important but a broad female line,with a number of cow families or tribes, were important for line breeding.

 

[burroughs85]

The old timers bred to the female side, good bulls are important but a broad female line,with a number of cow families or tribes, were important for line breeding.

Apparently, cattle aren't bred like man (in most cases) and wolves. One monogamous couple, a male and a female, who mate for life.

So a single bull might have been mated with members of several cow tribes? Is there good genetic strength in this method?

 

[burroughs85]

Old Spanish cattle breeding philosophy:

Brave cows calve brave bulls.
Valientes vacas paren bravos toros.


I suppose if a mother cow is not so timid then her calf will learn this behavior from her. A calf of either sex has only the mother to pick up behavioral manners from. This may be why the female side of things was closely scrutinized.

 

[Little Joe]

Old Spanish cattle breeding philosophy:

Brave cows calve brave bulls.
Valientes vacas paren bravos toros.


I suppose if a mother cow is not so timid then her calf will learn this behavior from her. A calf of either sex has only the mother to pick up behavioral manners from. This may be why the female side of things was closely scrutinized

Typically offspring of animals do pick up alot of their behaviors from the mother because that's who they're with all the time although some behavior will be genetic and will be passed from the sire.

Apparently, cattle aren't bred like man (in most cases) and wolves. One monogamous couple, a male and a female, who mate for life.

So a single bull might have been mated with members of several cow tribes? Is there good genetic strength in this method?

An average bull can breed around 40 cows in a breeding season depending on the length of one's breeding season so while the female's traits are very important, the bull will be the sire to all the calves so his genetics should be very desirable.

 

[burroughs85]

Perhaps, then the term TRIBE was invented for the maternal line, the maternal line of dairy cattle to consider which ladies are the excellent calvers and milkers. Old-school farmers were probably scrutinizing female lines for this reason. Males in breeding probably have little to do genetically with female functions as birthing and lactation but I could be wrong. A bull passes on an X chromosome from his mother to his daughter. The Y chromosome stays strictly in a male line from father to son. I don't know how much effect the sex chromosomes have on overall animal quality, but I think there are other kinds of genes as well. Old-school domestic animal breeders probably had little biological knowledge such as how chromosome pairings worked, DNA and such.

 

[Rmc]

The old timers bred to the female side, good bulls are important but a broad female line,with a number of cow families or tribes, were important for line breeding.

Can you name me one cow family that was started and based on a cow
Everyone that I can think of were all based on a particular bull

 

[greybeard]

Old Grannie125 and more so, Black Meg 43.
(There's a burger place in Copperas Cove Texas named for BlackMeg 43)

 

[burroughs85]

Old Grannie125 and more so, Black Meg 43.
(There's a burger place in Copperas Cove Texas named for BlackMeg 43)

I would think cow-based breeding might be more of something practiced in the dairy trade. I've looked at a few Spanish bullfighting videos as of late and keep learning a few more things. In Spain, breeders try to find the least-timid cows for rearing fighting bulls. An exceptionally brave bull may be awarded a pardon from the president of the plaza and this animal will be pardoned so his life will be spared from the matador's sword concluding a bullfight. This is a great honor for the bull breeders. It is this pardoned bull that will be mated with these exceptionally bold cows for producing future bull ring bulls. The braver, the fiercer, the tougher, the better. No cowardly bulls allowed in the bull rings. No flower sniffing Ferdinands.

 

[Ebenezer]

Quite an odd discussion as so many breeders flush cows to create the "great ones". If you ignore the cow the wheels will fall off of your wagon.