Vaccination question about dairy heifers

[Harris2346]

Iam going to start raising dairy heifers, Iam not bottle feeding them, Iam going to use nurse cows. My question is what vaccinations do I give them and what age do I give them the vaccinations. I have been studying it and I think I have figured it out but not sure any information would be greatly appreciated thanks. What I think it is at birth when they are one day old I need to give them Inforce 3 which is an Intranasal that is for IBR and P13,and then I need to give them Mu-se that is for white muscle disease.Then at 2 weeks old I need to give them cattle master gold FP5L5 that is for IBR/P13/BRSV/BVD-MLV + Lepto 5 way. And then Ultrabac 7/somubac that is for clostridial diseases. Then at 6 weeks old the same thing cattle master gold FP5L5 and Ultrabac7/somubac. Then at weaning Inforce 3 Intranasal. Then at 5 months old Cattle master gold FP5L5 and Utrarabac7/somuback cattle vaccine and then take them to the vet to get there bangs vaccine. Then at 6 months old give them Lepto shield 5 and Ultrabac 7/somubac. And when I give the vaccine at weaning I have been told not to give it to them the day you wean, I was told give it to them a couple days before weaning or even a week before, any feedback about this would be greatly appreciated. I raised calves like this when I was in high school which was 20 years ago and my dad was the one teaching me but never would sit down with me and explain he would just say give this much to all the calves whenever it was time to vaccinate, my dad passed away 2 years ago so I can't ask him now and now Iam really regretting not asking him before he passed away. Thanks in advance.

 

[TCRanch]

I would suggest you sit down with your vet and develop a vaccination program specifically for your operation & location. All subject to change based on how your operation develops.

I raise beef & currently give calves First Defense day one. Vaccinate at appx 3 months with 5cc Covexin 8, 2cc Moraxella bovis/bovoculi (pinkeye) & wormed. 5cc Covexin 8, 5cc Triangle 4+PH-K, wormed & heifers get 5cc Lutalyse at weaning. Retained/replacement heifers get BANGS, 5 way VL5 at 11 months when they're pelvic measured. 5cc Vira Shield 6+VL5 HB, 2cc Moraxella bovis/bovoculi (pinkeye) & wormed at appx 15 months. BUT just discussed with my vet switching to using a mod live like Bovi Shield Gold instead of Triangle (killed) on calves at appx 3 months, again at weaning and we're going to figure out a new game plan. See aforementioned "talk to your vet".

 

[Harris2346]

Thank you very much that helps. And your absolutely right about talking to my vet, I planned on doing that.I just wanted to try to get a little more information before I talked to him. And when you vaccinate at weaning time do you vaccinate a few days before weaning or the day of weaning.

 

[TCRanch]

In a perfect world I would vaccinate a few weeks prior to weaning. I don't live in a perfect world so I vaccinate the day of, hence switching my game plan to include vaccinating against pneumonia earlier.

 

[Harris2346]

I figured it would be better a week or few weeks before weaning but I wasn't sure, I haven't raised cattle in a long time and I can't remember all this stuff, thank you for your advice any other advice you have is greatly appreciated. And like I said Iam for going to talk to my vet about the vaccinations.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

Looking over your list, it looks like you are wanting to do a great job. But, as TC suggested - your vet is best.
Everyone will have a different list and timing.

I totally agree with the Inforce 3 & MuSe (or BoSe) at birth (I use Multimin 90 instead of MuSe - both are for Selenium). Since your calves will be sucking a ?pregnant? cow, you cannot give a MLV to the nursing calf UNLESS the cow has been vaccinated with the MLV within the past 12 months. You are using Cattlemaster which is mfg by same company as BoviShield Gold, but is safe to use on calves nursing cows that have NOT been vaccinated within 12 months.

On my farm, I vaccinate all my breeding stock with a MLV (BoviShield Gold 5L5HB) every 12 months at least 45 days prior to breeding. Then, my calves are safe to get MLV shots.

I give my calves BoviShield at 3 & 4 months of age. Then I do not have to worry about getting it in them prior to weaning, they are protected. At the 3 month old work-up, I give them OneShot Ultra and they get the UltraChoice 8 booster at the 4 month workup. About a month AFTER weaning (which would be about 8 months old) I give another round of BS Gold & OneShot Ultra.

The BS5L5 does not need a "booster" because it is a MLV - but, you can realistically figure 90% of your calves get complete protection from the first shot and (I believe) the BRSV and Lepto needs to be boostered. So, instead of just boostering the two component of the BS, I give the whole thing again. Extremely cheap insurance, and they are totally covered.
A MLV vaccine should be good protection for a year.
A Killed vaccine MUST be boostered within 3-5 weeks (read label) and is only good for maybe 6 months.
Cattlemaster is both - MLV & killed (I believe)

If your calves have received colostrum, I would question you giving them CM at 2 & 6 weeks of age. The colostrum gives them protection for 3 months. Giving the nasal product at birth is not affected by the maternal antibodies, but it will affect the injected vaccines given under 3 months of age.

If more people chime in, you will get another list of shots. You are definitely on the right track. Now that you are "informed", time to sit down with a vet!!

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

I BANGS vaccinate all my heifers also. TC gives Lutalyse at weaning, but I do not run a bull so I do not do this. Lutalyse is used to abort a heifer/cow if she got bred and you did not want that. It works between 10 days and ?100 days. I do not vaccinate for PinkEye.
I do de-worm my calves. At the 3 month workup I use Valbazen drench, and at 4 months, I use a PourOn. Calves are susceptible to tapeworm and most of the dewormers do not get tape worms, but Valbazen does.

 

[TCRanch]

I BANGS vaccinate all my heifers also. TC gives Lutalyse at weaning, but I do not run a bull so I do not do this. Lutalyse is used to abort a heifer/cow if she got bred and you did not want that. It works between 10 days and ?100 days. I do not vaccinate for PinkEye.
I do de-worm my calves. At the 3 month workup I use Valbazen drench, and at 4 months, I use a PourOn. Calves are susceptible to tapeworm and most of the dewormers do not get tape worms, but Valbazen does.

93% of the time. Say Hello to 7% luted at 49 days & even after my vet preg checked her open.

Did you vaccinate for pinkeye when you lived in KS? Even though a lot of people around here still don't (and have had train wrecks primarily during the summer) my vet strongly recommends it. Also why they now carry the custom blend Moraxella bovis/bovoculi vaccine.

And to the OP, precisely why your vaccination program is (should) be based on where you live. Sounds like you have it pretty well mapped out but I would also take into consideration any neighbors that share a fence line - and may or may not vaccinate or have a sound fly-control program, bulls that don't respect a fence, etc.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

I have never vacc for Pinkeye. Vaccinations may be better now, but they never could cover the varieties affecting the cattle. PE can be controlled (semi) with keeping weeds down, fly control, etc. Flies are NOT a problem here in NY like they were in Ks. People out here just "think" they have a lot of flies LOL.

 

[farmerjan]

We do minimal vaccinations compared to many on here. I will not advise because I have some different philosophies..... Except to say that black leg at 2 week and again at 6 weeks is defeating the purpose. If the cows have been vaccinated for blackleg (clostridial) they will pass the immunity on to the calves. We had some problems years ago and found that vaccinating the cows, and yes, my nurse cows also, eliminated the need for it before 8-12 weeks when the maternal antibodies fade in the milk. My vet said it was a waste of time and too much stress on the calves and would actually counteract the naturally occurring antibodies from the cows.
We do BoSe for the E & Selenium as we are in a deficient area, but not to all the calves as we do have the max amount of E & selenium put in our mineral mix. But I am quick to give any weak calf a shot. I also do A & D. I no longer give pinkeye vaccinations. We had more cases of it than ever when we were doing it. The vet said he had never seen such a "negative" response to it so to try and see how we made out without giving it again. We do much better without. And there is a fair amount of pinkeye around here. We give A & D to anything I treat, but we also cull for resistance. We have a few cases a year, but if caught quick, can usually completely clear it up. We have eliminated alot of it simple from culling, and the cows building up a natural resistance to it, which seems to pass it on to the calves.

All heifers we are retaining get Bangs. We lepto them also. Don't lepto anything we are not retaining. Cows get lepto and Blackleg at preg checks, once a year.

We do not routinely worm anything. We feed Diatomaceous Earth in our feed and in our mineral mix. We worm only as necessary and also cull for cows that are susceptible to worms. My nurse cows follow the same protocol as the beef cows except that they are grain fed when they are nursing calves as I want maximum production so they can raise up the maximum # of calves.

One curious question. Are you going to be raising dairy heifers on contract? The reason that I ask is that the dairy industry is in such a tough state right now, with so many going out and milk prices being so low. There is NO MARKET for springing dairy heifers here in Va. They are selling for 800 to 1200 if you can find a buyer. I live and work in the Shen Valley where there are alot of dairies. I interact with these farmers every day/week and have for over 35 years.
I think nurse cow raised calves do better than many bottle calves. But will you have a market for them? I know what it takes to raise calves on nurse cows, and what it costs to get a heifer up to calving. Presently here it is a lost cause. One of my registered dairy farmers sold out and he kept his open heifers. He had a great reputation, 60 years of breeding and showing for many years, sold reg. bulls as cleanup to many farms, good milk records, and was hard pressed to get 1150 for his springers this past fall.

I would hate for you to do something that there is no market for and to lose your shirt so to speak when you cannot sell them except at a loss. So that was why I was asking.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

I also give A&D at birth, but every calf of mine gets A&D & SE & Inforce 3 shots, along with naval dipping, weighing & tagging.

 

[Harris2346]

Thank you all for the advice I can for sure tell that I need to talk to my vet and get his advice on what vaccinations to give because I can tell that every state has different vaccinations to give. And thank you Jeanne I didn't know that mlv didn't need a booster shot I thought that both mlv and killed vaccines need to give booster. And Farmer Jan I don't have a contract yet but that is what Iam going for and you are absolutely right if there was no market for dairy springers heifers that would be a terrible idea, the area where I live there are lots of dairies, I know a lot of the dairyman, my father bought all of there cull cattle for years and my uncle raised dairy springers heifers and sold them them to the dairyman for years. But I don't know if I can afford to raise them and sell them for a profit, Iam still trying to figure out all the kinks still, one thing Iam going to do in the spring and summer to save a little money on feed is put them on pasture. But before I try to get a contract with the dairyman I need to make enough money to build better corrals on my property and improve other things and practice at raising the heifers and keeping them healthy, get more educated about the vaccinations Iam going to use. See what kinds of feeds work better so on and so forth, bascically get a good game plan. So for right now when I start raising them Iam just going to talk to talk to the smaller dairyman to see if they want to buy my springers heifers or sell them at the cattle auction. And try to get a reputation from doing that. Then when I get enough money and things on my property are improved and Iam ready then I want to go get a contract from a dairyman.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

Dairymen have been using sexed semen, so there is a "glut" of dairy females.
On the MLV there are some components of a shot that may need a booster - like Lepto and BRSV. Each can be different, you need to read label. I prefer a MLV because you get better/longer protection - but there are more stipulations when using it. Killed is "safest", but the whole thing is worthless if you don't booster on a timely manner and not as long lasting.

 

[Harris2346]

Thank you that helps me understand it better about the mlv vaccines and the killed vaccines, trying to understand what vaccines I need to give and when and why is like trying to learn a new language but slowly Iam understanding it. What I have figured out is that the reason that it is so crucial that the calf get enough colostrum within the first couple hours of being born is because the calf gains temporary immunities from disease when they ingest the colostrum. But after a few weeks or months this temporary protection fades off, and calves must build there own immunities. That's why calves need to be vaccinated,from there you need to come up with a vaccination program that best fits your operation. And A few things that I need to keep in mind is vaccinating to soon may not stimulate immune response because the calf may still have maternal antibodies in its system and the vaccination may interfere with building its own immunities and the body sees no need to respond. I plan on weaning my calves at 2 months old so I want to get them eating calf starter as early as soon as possible so by the time I wean them they are eating 2 pounds of calf starter a day. So if Iam going to wean them at 2 months of age I can tell my vaccination program will be completely different then all of you that have commented because you all are raising beef cattle and wean at a lot older age. And my operation is completely different then yours, I figured when and what vaccinations you give to your calves were the same in any operation but know I can see it's not. But I am starting to understand it and I appreciate everyone's comments, they have been very helpful. And with what you said about the sex semen you are absolutely right about dairyman using it a lot and there are way more heifer calves being born then bull calves, and that's something I didn't think about that could hurt the market for dairy heifers, because there would not be a need and demand for heifers so the market will go down. I plan on using sex semen also when I AI my nurse cows.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

Just curious why you would wean at 2 months of age? That is the cheapest gain you will get out of your calves (nursing a cow).
You have the right idea about their maternal immunites, but, whether the calf is never on a cow, or weaned at 2 months or weaned at 6 months, if the calf got good quality colostrum, his immune system is protected for the first 3 months of their lives (approx). If you are worried about the stress of weaning at 2 months of age, if it were me, I might think about giving Inforce 3 again at that time - but, if it were me I wouldn't wean until later.

 

[Harris2346]

That's the way I always did it with my dad when I was younger, but if the calf got sick it took longer to wean it. I know with beef cattle you wait a lot longer to wean to get more gain, but with bottle calves I always thought it was a lot less time.

 

[farmerjan]

Just some thoughts on what I do and have done. I presently have 8 nurse cows, not all in production right now. I have done it two ways. I will start calves on the cow, and grain her good to get the best production. Most get 3 or 4 calves to start. Then at about 3 months, I will start putting a couple new calves on her to get started and let her older calves "finish her up". I do this by not letting the calves run with the cow but bringing her in to the calves twice a day, just like I was milking but let the calves "milk her". This way, I can start some new ones, let the older calves get her milked out and they are getting less milk and are in where I can monitor them eating grain, and wean them off that way. Good productive cows can raise 5-8 calves a year... But you are putting more into the calves because of feeding them grain sooner and then getting them off the cow and on a feed ration.

I also have put calves on nurse cows, and after a few weeks of being sure she will take them, let them run with her and nurse whenever they want. The first 2-4 weeks, I do them the same as the previous way I mentioned... bringing the cow into the calves. But once I am sure she will allow the calves to nurse, then I keep her in the "catch pen" for the daytime, watching that the calves can nurse when they want and she doesn't try to keep any off her. A few days of being sure she lets them on her, they get to go out with the cow. I will continue to bring her in for grain and to keep an eye on the calves. Once I am sure they all seem to be getting what they want and need, then they can stay out with her all the time. I do still grain the cow at least once a day. The calves learn to come in a creep gate and get grain, or come in with the cow, and learn to eat grain from eating with her out of the feed bunk. So she will only raise one "batch" a year, but they will grow and gain alot better off the cow's milk.
This year they calved in August, and will keep their calves at least until the spring. I don't especially like fall calves on nurse cows, it takes too much out of the cow in the winter, and will not be breeding this group back until next June so they will have spring calves in 2020. I have one that when she calves, I only put 2 on her, and then lock her away from the calves 12 hours a day and milk for the house, then let the calves have her for 12 hours.
Got one that will only take one batch of calves as long as her own calf is nursing. She does a good job so quit fighting to get her to take more batches.

Nurse cows can be tempermental, and it's not like just putting calves in there and they stand there like an old dud and let anyone suck. I have a first calf heifer that will take anyone and another that will kick the living daylights out of any that are not "hers"....

 

[farmerjan]

I seriously think you need to talk to some dairies around there before you get into this too deep. Besides the sexed semen making a surplus of heifers, and the market has been saturated for years, there are many dairies going out. So the demand for replacements is also dropping. I am very serious about the low prices for replacements and the over supply. I used to do custom raising of replacements and did decent but it is no longer a profitable business. The custom raisers around here are getting stuck with bred-springing heifers that they have $12-1500 in and cannot get 1,000 at dairy consignment sales. Check the prices at New Holland, one of the biggest avenues for sales of dairy cattle in the east. They are having sales that they are not getting 6-800 for decent milking dairy cows.
It might change in a few years but I honestly don't see it as more "older farmers" sell out, the younger generation does not want to get in or can't afford to with milk prices at record lows. The dairies are getting bigger and they are using sexed semen and raising more heifers, and the prices continue to fall. Many of the dairy farmers her in Va are breeding the lower half or 2/3 of their herds to beef semen to have a calf that will bring more as a baby calf, and breeding their top 1/3 to 1/2 cows, to sexed semen for heifers to be retained out of their best milking animals.

 

[Harris2346]

I have never thought about trying to let the calves just run freely with the cow that is a really good idea and a lot less work I like that, I have always Locked the cow in the lockup's and brought the calves to her. And I can for sure understand that I need to talk to the dairyman and other people in my are to see if Iam even going to have a market and a place to sell the springers heifers, and see if after all my expenses to raise the heifer if Iam going to make a profit cause it wouldn't be worth doing it. Thank you for all of your advice it has been very helpful and educational, it has opened my eyes to other things I need to consider and get more information about before I start raising heifers.

 

[farmerjan]

I have never thought about trying to let the calves just run freely with the cow that is a really good idea and a lot less work I like that, I have always Locked the cow in the lockup's and brought the calves to her. And I can for sure understand that I need to talk to the dairyman and other people in my are to see if Iam even going to have a market and a place to sell the springers heifers, and see if after all my expenses to raise the heifer if Iam going to make a profit cause it wouldn't be worth doing it. Thank you for all of your advice it has been very helpful and educational, it has opened my eyes to other things I need to consider and get more information about before I start raising heifers.

I surely hope that you don't think I was trying to discourage you from raising calves. It is just that the dairy industry has changed so much in the last 10 years, but especially in the last 5. I have never in 35 years heard or seen so many dairymen as discouraged as they are now. The milk prices are bad....$14 to $17.00 per hundred weight. In 1989 when I was milking for a farmer, it was $17.50 and the input costs were half or less. Just think of the increase costs of fuel, fertilizer, and such compared to today. The marginal farmers are long gone, and the good ones are struggling. A small dairyman used to be able to raise up a half dozen or so extra heifers and get some added income from them. Now they are putting more into them than they can ever recoup. It is sad.

There are a few other farmers/ranchers on here that were dairymen and I think they will tell you the same thing.
I have calves on 2, 1st calf jersey heifers; one has 4 one has 3. Both have their calves out with them full time. Have a 2 teat jersey that is a witch, with her last calf, because getting her to take a 2nd one is a constant fight. Have one of my jer/hol x, with only her calf this time, because after I dried her up, caught a beef calf that had started stealing and she didn't get a dry period and did not come into her milk. I don't know if it ruined her udder. She raised 6 last time. She will get a long break this time and hopefully things will go better. She will take anything you give her. She's got a great disposition and will let me milk also.
There were several things going on this fall that prevented me from doing them like I normally do. I hope that by their next time around things will be better and I can give them the time they really deserve again. I like fooling with my dairy cows, and I enjoy milking by hand. But it is our beef cattle that we concentrate on. The nice thing is I often can pull a calf off a beef cow to put over on a nurse cow, or off a nurse cow if a beef cow loses a calf.