Transitioning from Dairy to Beef in Wisconsin.

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If I want to eventually settle into a 3 or 4 breed rotational crossbreeding system....would there be any advantage to breeding to the same beef breed for a few generations, before doing any additional cross-breeding? Breed all angus for a few generations, before crossing with anything else?

Thoughts?
 
slamotto":32qklzf7 said:
If I want to eventually settle into a 3 or 4 breed rotational crossbreeding system....would there be any advantage to breeding to the same beef breed for a few generations, before doing any additional cross-breeding? Breed all angus for a few generations, before crossing with anything else?

Thoughts?
when you start with a crossbreed an then pick 1 of the crosses as a pure breed an breed to the crosses youll end up with pure breeds sooner or later.id pick 3 breeds of bulls an change bulls every 3yrs.
 
This will be a smaller operation...I'll be looking to use A.I. for all breeding. I've got a close friend who is the local Select Sires tech.

I am leaning towards a 4-breed rotation, because I want the hybrid vigor that comes from breeding an animal that is predominatly British to a continential bull (and vice versa). Using 4 breeds would allow me to maintain a consistent pattern of going back and forth between British and Continental.

Right now, I'm thinking Angus -> Simmental -> Hereford -> Gelbveih (or Charolais). It appears that Gelbveih semen via Select Sires may be an issue...so that 4th breed may end up being Charolais.

There will be uniformily issues with a 4-breed mix like this, I expect, but I don't think that will be much of an issue for the purpose of my herd...which will be to provide meat for my family...maybe sell extra to neighbors.
 
Welcome from a fellow Wisconsinite and I wouldn't even think about having 'beef' cows with a dairy breed in there somewhere, I mean Holsteins are not exactly beef type animals, BUT that's your choice. Your best bet would probably be to get some nice black(herfXangus) or red(herfXred angus) baldy, bred cows and go from there. Good luck, I'm pulling for you.
 
Thanks, ABrauny....yup, I realize that starting with Holsteins isn't ideal....but I want to be able to trace at least part of my herd back to my parents herd. Once I get settled in a bit, maybe I'll be able to add in some dairy-less stock as well.
 
There are some holstein x angus cows behind our place in east texas. Mostly F1s and 3/4 angus. They raise the biggest calves around. Neighbor runs a Black simmental bull over them. They cows stay bout bcs4 which he says is ample condition for these cows. As long as they breed back its all good. He says they are very fertile and never had breed back issues. Pretty feminine 1500lb cows but without a doubt- those cows bring home 50% of their weight. When you can get calves born in the fall oct-nov and then have the spring annuals like in East Texas - those cows will put the milk to some growthy calves. When a 5-6month old calf is getting ALL the milk they can take- there is some serious growing going on. The calves which are all black, the cows are too but some w/ white udders, don't show any dairy characteristics.

That being said, I would sell the holstein heifers as breds and take that money and buy some F1 beef heifers.
 
This is a very interesting topic to myself. I am pondering basically the same question. We sold our dairy cows but kept all the youngstock to sell in future. I am very partial to Brown Swiss dairy and had a Brown Swiss Bull we used to crossbreed some Holsteins. I have a few 3/4 Swiss and many 1/2 Swiss 1/2 Holstein. I am wondering about crossing them to either an Angus,Braunvieh or Galloway. I am keeping the 3/4 Swiss for sure as I cannot bear to part with them. Should we breed the Swiss X Holstein to Holstein and sell as dairy springers or breed them to beef? Would that be asking for trouble and a poor way to start a beef herd? Also I have yet to find a clear definition of the difference between Brown Swiss and Braunvieh.
 
Why start your beef system from a Holstein base??? If you want to raise beef, raise beef not half dairy. It seems like folks raise Holstein or part Holstein steers because they have to, not create them intentionally for beef.

Why not buy a older couple beef (Hereford?) cows along with your Angus bull, (or older Angus cows with a Hereford bull) calve everything out, sell anything with Holstein in it to raise some $$ and build from a black baldie base? jmho.

Jim
 
We have about 20 holstein mama cows. These holsteins were heifers left from our dairy herd and wouldn't bring any money when the milk prices dropped in 2009 or so. We've gotten some very beef looking steers and heifers from our angus bull with them. And, we've seen great calves raised from the few 1/2 holsteins / 1/2 angus cow's we've had in the past.

We just preg checked our last group of holstein heifers yesterday that were bred to holstein bulls. They will be sold soon to buy some more angus. But the 20 or so we have have raised great calves that were almost all completely black. The vet kept telling me they were all angus when we were weaning and vaccinating them, but I'd show him the records on who the DAM was.

For the emotional attachment, I'd say go for it. Just realize you'll loose a little bit of feed efficiency with the holsteins. You may also have some future suprises in offspring as the holstein traits may show up randomly in the future. But it can be done. You also could run 2 or 3 calves on those holsteins after they calve.
 
we did the samething as yall are wanting todo when we sold our dairy out.our beef herd was made up of hereford x hol cows.an had a hereford bull an here x hol bull.well they would dock the calves because they could see the hol blood in them.but the buyers made a nice profit off the calves.for the last 5yrs weve run beefmaster bull on the cows.an in 5yrs im happy with the stock cow herd.your better off to sell the heifers springing or fresh an then buy some beef cows.
 
Most of my herd traces back to a couple of Holstein heifers (one red, one black) that my wife gave me as a birthday present, back in '87. Dairy-type udder is still evident on a few, despite 25 years of breeding to beef bulls(Simmental, SimAngus, Angus, and now some Shorthorn) - but they raise a whopper of a calf, maintain body condition, and breed back - but few are more than 1/8 Holstein, anymore. The F1s, not so much - breed-back, on a minimal-input management program wasn't good - but with adequate forage & feed, they may work well for you.
Through the years, there have been at least a couple of 'composite' beef breeds developed, with Holstein in the mix - Hays Converter was/is a mix of
Holstein, Brown Swiss, and Hereford; RX3 was developed from red& white Holsteins bred to Herefords, with those F1s bred to red Angus. So...you're not exactly reinventing the wheel.

Recommendations to buy beef cows/heifers with the proceeds of the sale of the milk cows - either as springers or fresh milkers - are probably the most reasonable, but I can understand your desire to retain ties to the parents' herd.
All the beef breeds bring something desirable(and sometimes some less-desirable) to the table; you get to pick what direction you go - though you may want to consider what your local market 'wants' - black or smokey calves sell better here than reds or spotted/colored cattle.

Having been breeding at least some Simmental influence for nearly 30 years, I'm partial to them - but, like countrycattle, I've always liked Brown Swiss, and like what I've seen of Braunvieh and Braunvieh-cross cattle; you might consider Braunvieh in your crossbreeding program, though few of the major beef studs, like ABS, SS, Accelerated, etc., carry any Braunvieh semen.
 
I used to keep old junker cars around for the memories. Finally realized it was easier to take a picture and get rid of them. Can't keep everything.

Maybe keep one cow for nostalgia sake and use some milk from her for the family. Sell the rest, buy beefers, and start out closer to where you want to end up.
 
I still say using a true beef breed, like Galloway, will work well. I have seen it. Old style Angus would too.

Using Simmental (dairy) SimAngus, Shorthorn (most have some milking shorthorn), new age Angus (crossed with who knows what) will not minimize the dairy characteristics.
 
Great advice! keep it coming Yes, the all Holsteins here are going to go down the road for sure as springers. Just have to decide about the Brown Swiss. Maybe will just keep my 3/4 Swiss and sell the rest. Its just so tempting to keep the 1/2 Swiss as we know they are healthy and all. But, guessing they would maybe make to much milk and then we would have mastitis problems too.
 
keep the half swiss and breed them to a terminal fullblood char or limo- If you have the nutrition to keep them milking and breeding back, few if anyone on here will have a cross that will bring more lbs to the table.
 
Lucky_P":1br2k01e said:
Recommendations to buy beef cows/heifers with the proceeds of the sale of the milk cows - either as springers or fresh milkers - are probably the most reasonable, but I can understand your desire to retain ties to the parents' herd.
All the beef breeds bring something desirable(and sometimes some less-desirable) to the table; you get to pick what direction you go - though you may want to consider what your local market 'wants' - black or smokey calves sell better here than reds or spotted/colored cattle.
:nod:

Sell them and buy back what you need.
If you are not able to sell the dairy heifers to a dairy- - go Hereford or Limi AI, and then cross the resulting "bwf" to a black beef breed.
Just realize this is a 15 to 20 year project before you start.
 
ive forgotten the 2nd option,if their barn is still in operation shape an they still have the equipment.they could go back to milking when the heifers calve.
 
Stocker Steve":1nqu4qgj said:
Lucky_P":1nqu4qgj said:
Recommendations to buy beef cows/heifers with the proceeds of the sale of the milk cows - either as springers or fresh milkers - are probably the most reasonable, but I can understand your desire to retain ties to the parents' herd.
All the beef breeds bring something desirable(and sometimes some less-desirable) to the table; you get to pick what direction you go - though you may want to consider what your local market 'wants' - black or smokey calves sell better here than reds or spotted/colored cattle.
:nod:

Sell them and buy back what you need.
If you are not able to sell the dairy heifers to a dairy- - go Hereford or Limi AI, and then cross the resulting "bwf" to a black beef breed.
Just realize this is a 15 to 20 year project before you start.
Hereford, a British breed, and limosine, a continental breed, should never be thought of as "substitutes". One is maternal the other pseudoterminal. These cows he has are already "too" maternal - IDE go fullblood terminal.
 

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