Passive Income From Your Ranch

[Mark Reynolds]

This is interesting. Some facts and some questions: This property was sitting idle for a long time. Cattle and donkeys have been here for a while (no more cows now). Would a soil test help determine any issue(s)? How does one replace nutrients? What does resting a pasture do -- and for how long should it rest?

Letting the land sit idle for a time will allow the vegetation to recover somewhat to the potential level that the site can support. But, if components required for plant health and vigor have been removed from the site, recovery is limited by that.

Specifically, I'm thinking of nutrients that are taken up by plants that are required for their growth. The easiest ones to talk about are Phosphorous and Potassium, but there are others such as Magnesium (think grass tetany) and calcium. These nutrients/minerals are absorbed and utilized by the vegetation. Left in place, these nutrients get returned to the soil when the vegetation dies or is consumed and returned in the form of manure or urea. When the site/field is hayed, the nutrients/minerals are permanently removed, never to be returned or recycled. The only way to return them is to soil test and apply fertilizer. The nutrients are not replenished by letting the field sit idle. Additionally, grazing the site that is depleted does not replenish the removed nutrients as the grazing is only recycling the nutrients present on the field, not adding them.

Resting a pasture allows plants to recover to the extent the components of the pasture will allow them to. The plants in the pasture carry out photosynthesis which allows them to synthesize carbohydrates or 'plant food' and grow stronger and larger by developing root systems. When a pasture is overgrazed, the carbohydrate stores the plant has accumulated are completely used up ant the plant starts using components of itself to survive (the root system). This results in a plant that is susceptible to all sorts of issues such as drought, vigor loss, decreased production, weed encroachment.

What resting a pasture does NOT do is allow for the 'reappearance' of minerals that have been removed by haying. This removal of minerals and not returning them is what I was referring to as mining the hay ground. To return them, you must fertilize. Haying fields or allowing them to be hayed isn't quite passive income in my book. There is a cost to it.

Pastures are best rested when a rotational grazing system is implemented. On that note, rotational grazing has set goals and objectives that require certain steps or management measures. There is a bit more to it than 'randomly' moving livestock from one pasture to another. Find my 'Never Fail Rules of Grazing' on other threads here. These are for 'tame' grasses. Native bunchgrass pastures require a different management approach than this. One planning strategy will not fit all pastures to the point that every grazing operation requires a different, tailored management system.

 

[ClinchValley86]

Letting the land sit idle for a time will allow the vegetation to recover somewhat to the potential level that the site can support. But, if components required for plant health and vigor have been removed from the site, recovery is limited by that.

Specifically, I'm thinking of nutrients that are taken up by plants that are required for their growth. The easiest ones to talk about are Phosphorous and Potassium, but there are others such as Magnesium (think grass tetany) and calcium. These nutrients/minerals are absorbed and utilized by the vegetation. Left in place, these nutrients get returned to the soil when the vegetation dies or is consumed and returned in the form of manure or urea. When the site/field is hayed, the nutrients/minerals are permanently removed, never to be returned or recycled. The only way to return them is to soil test and apply fertilizer. The nutrients are not replenished by letting the field sit idle. Additionally, grazing the site that is depleted does not replenish the removed nutrients as the grazing is only recycling the nutrients present on the field, not adding them.

Resting a pasture allows plants to recover to the extent the components of the pasture will allow them to. The plants in the pasture carry out photosynthesis which allows them to synthesize carbohydrates or 'plant food' and grow stronger and larger by developing root systems. When a pasture is overgrazed, the carbohydrate stores the plant has accumulated are completely used up ant the plant starts using components of itself to survive (the root system). This results in a plant that is susceptible to all sorts of issues such as drought, vigor loss, decreased production, weed encroachment.

What resting a pasture does NOT do is allow for the 'reappearance' of minerals that have been removed by haying. This removal of minerals and not returning them is what I was referring to as mining the hay ground. To return them, you must fertilize. Haying fields or allowing them to be hayed isn't quite passive income in my book. There is a cost to it.

Pastures are best rested when a rotational grazing system is implemented. On that note, rotational grazing has set goals and objectives that require certain steps or management measures. There is a bit more to it than 'randomly' moving livestock from one pasture to another. Find my 'Never Fail Rules of Grazing' on other threads here. These are for 'tame' grasses. Native bunchgrass pastures require a different management approach than this. One planning strategy will not fit all pastures to the point that every grazing operation requires a different, tailored management system.

What say you about the theory that there is all the P and K in the soil we could possibly need. It's just a matter of the nutrient cycle being way out of back due to the neglect and abuse of the last 300 years. Needs to be pulled up into the top 6 inches of soil.

I think the NPK testing is severely flawed. Not articulate enough to put my thoughts in words though. I wish I had gotten a baseline soil test, both a common NPK and one of the Haney types tests.

There are those that are bringing ground back to life with grazing management. Turning deserts back into grasslands. Someone on the Chihuahua Desert has been doing that without hay I believe, could be wrong about the hay thing.

My eyes see what they see. But no scientific elaboration on anything.

 

[cowman82]

Around here that early cutting is the wet season, both rain and wet soggy clay that won't support equipment.

Early to mid June our hay crop would be ideal but typically even with duals on your rutting up the fields.

So do you make an "ideally timed" hay cutting and tear up your fields, or cut in late June or July and have a usable field left for years to come?

And when your covering significant acreage some hay will be early and some will be late thats just the name of the game.

a big thing where I lived before was to cut / bale / wrap wet hay. they go into the fields soaking wet, make big ruts, bale it.. run the skid loaders with tracks to pick it up. I'm sure that really damages a lot and makes it not very fun to bale in the future.. but they seem to like playing in the mud.

 

[cowman82]

What say you about the theory that there is all the P and K in the soil we could possibly need.

I see this saying in the 'grass farmer' circles... unfortunately.. when people plant corn / beans / hay and keep raping it over and over. yes.. they will take it all out. Just think. a hay crop will remove 50 lb of K for every ton.

And the argument is always.. "in good farmland theres XXXXX amount of K .. . P... " well.. most people grazing don't have "good" farmland. So throw that out the window. I had top quality farmland that I bought. Some of the best soils in the state. That guy raped that place for his entire life until he died. I did soil tests. EVERYTHING was at 4 - 5 ppm.

I had to put 500 / lb acre on to even get any type of yields. After 4 years of high fertilizer amounts, cows, and unrolling hay.. I got it up to 7-8ppm. No fancy lime.. bugs, plants.... anything.. will get it back. MAYBE the best thing would of been some deep tillage and rolled the bottom 2-3 feet into the top. but i never tested that deep to see where it was at. a lot of places you can't do that though.

 

[Warren Allison]

Letting the land sit idle for a time will allow the vegetation to recover somewhat to the potential level that the site can support. But, if components required for plant health and vigor have been removed from the site, recovery is limited by that.

Specifically, I'm thinking of nutrients that are taken up by plants that are required for their growth. The easiest ones to talk about are Phosphorous and Potassium, but there are others such as Magnesium (think grass tetany) and calcium. These nutrients/minerals are absorbed and utilized by the vegetation. Left in place, these nutrients get returned to the soil when the vegetation dies or is consumed and returned in the form of manure or urea. When the site/field is hayed, the nutrients/minerals are permanently removed, never to be returned or recycled. The only way to return them is to soil test and apply fertilizer. The nutrients are not replenished by letting the field sit idle. Additionally, grazing the site that is depleted does not replenish the removed nutrients as the grazing is only recycling the nutrients present on the field, not adding them.

Resting a pasture allows plants to recover to the extent the components of the pasture will allow them to. The plants in the pasture carry out photosynthesis which allows them to synthesize carbohydrates or 'plant food' and grow stronger and larger by developing root systems. When a pasture is overgrazed, the carbohydrate stores the plant has accumulated are completely used up ant the plant starts using components of itself to survive (the root system). This results in a plant that is susceptible to all sorts of issues such as drought, vigor loss, decreased production, weed encroachment.

What resting a pasture does NOT do is allow for the 'reappearance' of minerals that have been removed by haying. This removal of minerals and not returning them is what I was referring to as mining the hay ground. To return them, you must fertilize. Haying fields or allowing them to be hayed isn't quite passive income in my book. There is a cost to it.

Pastures are best rested when a rotational grazing system is implemented. On that note, rotational grazing has set goals and objectives that require certain steps or management measures. There is a bit more to it than 'randomly' moving livestock from one pasture to another. Find my 'Never Fail Rules of Grazing' on other threads here. These are for 'tame' grasses. Native bunchgrass pastures require a different management approach than this. One planning strategy will not fit all pastures to the point that every grazing operation requires a different, tailored management system.

Excellent post. I agree 100%. We can cut our bermuda hay fields 4 times a year , and have done 5 when the rains hit just right, But, I test and re-fertilize after each cutting. Spend a LOT of money on fertilizer for these fields, but we don't roll it to feed cows. We square bale it for horses, and sell it for a LOT of money. Happy if I break even, and sometimes I even make a dollar or two. Now the pastures with fescue and bermuda mixed, with legumes like clover in it? If not over grazed,.. and especially if not grazed year round, you need very little fertilizer compared to my hay fields...mostly just lime. Maybe some ammonia nitrate in the spring right before the growth starts.

Lots of people around here will cut and bale their fescue pastures, but I won't. Like you said, baling it just removes nutrients that can only be replaced with expensive fertilizer. Before the west was settled, the great plains were some of the most fertile soil there was, and the prairie grass was highly nutritious, But the great bison herds were constantly on the move....constantly migrating. They'd graze an area, say as they migrated north, deposit the nutrients back in manure, then move on, coming back around to it in about 6 months or so as they migrated south. That would be the way to do it, if it was economically feasible, Down here, where you can run 1 pair to the acre year round, IF you could afford to buy 600 acres, ( at $25k to $50k per acre) cut it into 12 pastures, and just run 50 head, moving them once a month.... you could restore the land and never deplete it, and put the fertilizer companies out of business. But who could afford that? Cheaper to run 500 head on it, spend a ton on fertilizer and feed and minerals, etc. And that is what people do. Sad, but that is just the way it is.

 

[Bob Kinford]

Where to donkeys "exist in the wild"? Every been to Oatman, AZ? The donkeys roam free and eat sagebrush, cactus, etc. Their energy requirements are very low, they don't need lush forage to exist. In fact typically in any sort of improved pasture scenario donkeys will become obese, and founder.

No they don't need lush vegetation, because they have the sense to pick the most nutrient dense plants. Seems like most desert ranches have a few cows they have to hunt and dig out of the brush every fall. They are often (especially in drought years) the fattest cows on the place because they are eating all of the "low quality" plants the other cows ignore.

 

[gman4691]

Make sure to check the pH if you are planning on adding nutrients. If the pH isn't right for your grasses, the plants won't be as efficient in using those nutrients. Working on what has historically been a somewhat neglected pasture now. The coastal Bermuda will do best at a pH of 5.8 to 6.5. My soil test showed a pH of 5.96 so I'll include about 1.25 to 1.5 tons of dolomitic lime per acre with about 3.5 tons of chicken litter per acre. Needed some N & P along with some calcium and magnesium. It will take some time for the lime to start working. Think marathon as opposed to a sprint when trying to bring soils up to speed. Some additives work fairly fast while some takes a little time. Remember the Law of Minimums…the vegetation will only do as well as the soil nutrient in the shortest amount will allow.

 

[Mark Reynolds]

What say you about the theory that there is all the P and K in the soil we could possibly need. It's just a matter of the nutrient cycle being way out of back due to the neglect and abuse of the last 300 years. Needs to be pulled up into the top 6 inches of soil.

I think the NPK testing is severely flawed. Not articulate enough to put my thoughts in words though. I wish I had gotten a baseline soil test, both a common NPK and one of the Haney types tests.

There are those that are bringing ground back to life with grazing management. Turning deserts back into grasslands. Someone on the Chihuahua Desert has been doing that without hay I believe, could be wrong about the hay thing.

My eyes see what they see. But no scientific elaboration on anything.

Sound grazing management is a must and virtually all land, no matter how depleted, can be brought back to some semblance of good to amazing. Increases in depleted organic matter levels in soils are an absolutely incredible buffer. However, if you get the soil to test where it 'should' be.......you ain't seen nothin yet!

@ClinchValley86, you are right, but there is more to the story.

 

[cowman82]

Sound grazing management is a must and virtually all land, no matter how depleted, can be brought back to some semblance of good to amazing. Increases in depleted organic matter levels in soils are an absolutely incredible buffer. However, if you get the soil to test where it 'should' be.......you ain't seen nothin yet!

@ClinchValley86, you are right, but there is more to the story.

It can be brought back, but with all the time and money involved, its usually easier to sell it and buy something better. you'll be better off.

 

[Mark Reynolds]

It can be brought back, but with all the time and money involved, its usually easier to sell it and buy something better. you'll be better off.

You can sell it and buy something better..........until there is nothing better to buy. There is a lot of it, but land is a limited resource and is not renewable. It is 'repairable', if you so choose.

 

[Warren Allison]

Scott has a pretty lucrative side gig that is passive farm income , for him, at least. Our Kudzu place is just covered slap up with blackberry bushes, wild plums, muscadines and scuppermongs. And looks like it will be a bumper crop this year. The edges of all his row crop land, the old dove field, etc, are eat up with wild plums and blackberries too. He has that orchard with apple, pear, peach and pecan trees. He plants about a 2 acre garden each year...and that doesn't count his watermelon and cantelope patches, and his sweet corn patch. They bought 480 tomato plants to set out this time.

There is an old couple ( I say they are old...I think they are about 3 years older than me and Scott!!! LOL) that lives in a house on his place. The man drives farm equipment for Scott, and he and his wife plant and tend the garden. She also helps Mattie with her canning ( and her wine, whiskey and rum making). There is an independent truck stop with a cafe at the exit to Scott's place., It is not very busy anymore, because at the exits to the north and south they have they newer Love's, Flyin J's, Racetracks/ways, and Q T's. That cafe is the only place to eat though, for 20 or more miles in either direction. They have some stalls or booths in the front parking lot, and Scott rents a good sized one. The couple, Zeke, and used to Mattie, pick blackberries, plums, scuppermongs and muscadines, and they sell them in that booth . And they sell tomatoes, watermelon, cantelope, apples, peaches, pears, peanuts and pecans in season. Lot of times they will sell excess sweet corn, beans, peas, cabbage, collards, turnips, peppers, squash and okra in season out of that garden, too. They also sell Mattie's and Bonita's ( The woman is a Seminole from south Florida, and Andrew is a Mexican. He was a legal migrant worker back in the 70;s down there in Fla, where they grow all the tomatoes, etc, and that is where they met. Dunno how they ended up in middle Ga, but they have been on Scott's place for 30 years or more) preserves, jellies, sorghum syrup, relish, chow-chow, etc. Til Mattie got beat up and hurt, they also used to sell boiled peanuts, fried pies, and they made peanut and pecan brittle. Oh, and they sell yard eggs from Zeke's chickens. A neighbor puts beehives around Scott's orchard, and at the garden, and they sell his honey for him, too.

Scott pays the rent ( I think $500 a year), and he buys the Mason jars, baskets, sacks etc., and gets his money back each year, and takes just 25% of the sales. It ain't passive income for Andrew, Bonita, Mattie and Zeke, but it sure is for Scott! It is a shame there aren't any kids around there who'd want to work. I bet they pick maybe 10% of the blackberries and wild plums. and less than half of the muscadines and scuppermongs produced just on the Kudzu place.

 

[cowman82]

You can sell it and buy something better..........until there is nothing better to buy. There is a lot of it, but land is a limited resource and is not renewable. It is 'repairable', if you so choose.

ok

 

[Warren Allison]

You can sell it and buy something better..........until there is nothing better to buy. There is a lot of it, but land is a limited resource and is not renewable. It is 'repairable', if you so choose.

None affordable for farming or ranching around here these days, at $25k-to as high as $50k per acre. So yeah, better take care of what you have.

 

[Ouachita]

None affordable for farming or ranching around here these days, at $25k-to as high as $50k per acre. So yeah, better take care of what you have.

Those prices are nuts, but we are starting to see land prices get crazy here too, starting with Al's invention of the internet and then especially with Covid.
I bought 80 acres of this place in 1996 for $50,000, and added another 50 acres in 2010 for $30,000. Cheap dirt, and I didn't feel as fortunate then as I do now.

Only 8 acres was improved pasture. The rest was cutover mix pine/hardwood timberland, about 4.5-5.2 pH. Over the years I've spent close to quadruple the purchase price to clear about 70 acres of it and bring the soil to a reasonable condition. Although it is much improved I still sometimes feel like I'm only halfway there, but it enjoyable and I feel I'm being a good steward (patting myself on the back)

 

[Lucky]

C & C Cattle Equipment

Use our Heavy Duty Cattle pens to work your cows faster and easier on your farm and ranch. Panels, Gates, Tubs, Alley ways, Round pens for horses.

cccattleequipment.com

I started with a set of these. Added on a few times and then built a permanent set out of them. The tub is nice but can be a pain if not used correctly.

 

[Twisted]

Anybody ever milked a camel? I just saw advertising, when I looked up camel milk, it is being advertised at $330 gal.? Been thinking on trading in the Tacoma for one of"em if I can find a used camel lot. But then again anything that rich has bound to give me the scours.

 

[Travlr]

Anybody ever milked a camel? I just saw advertising, when I looked up camel milk, it is being advertised at $330 gal.? Been thinking on trading in the Tacoma for one of"em if I can find a used camel lot. But then again anything that rich has bound to give me the scours.

Well at least you wouldn't need a stool. But I hear they can kick...

 

[Twisted]

Well at least you wouldn't need a stool. But I hear they can kick...

Just curious, where would you hang the bucket?