Grow your own or buy?

[greybeard]

At this time of year I feed between 35 and 40 lbs a day, so figure about 40 head per bale. I'm feeding 2.5 silage bales to every dry bale. The per head numbers are a bit subjective

Hay is providing both protein and energy. Energy=heat. Do you, being in a colder region than say, Jan, think your consumption rates would be lower IF you were in a more southern clime?
I don't know off the top of my head, how to figure dry matter equivalent from hay but around 28lbs per head per day DME just to maintain condition sticks in my mind.

Either way, You and GCreekrch and the folks out/up in Wy and other cold, snowy, icy, windy, 'freezin's the reason' places seem to have this cold weather thing down right and most of us here are in awe of how you manage it. (I am anyway)

But your winter inputs seem higher than what I'm used to seeing down south and I think it's not because we have 'some' winter grass..some years. Energy requirements have to be part of it.

 

[EasTex]

There are actually some great deals in our area right now if you can carry them.
People are out of grass and hay. I just bought some for 1100 bucks. I can't raise them for this. I don't have my final figures but right now it looks like two dollars a day to carry a cow.
That puts a retained heifer at over 3K in inputs before she produces a penny. Her dam contributed nothing to your operation for two years and the retained heifer as well. That's nearly 3K in cost to get her to production
This is from a commercial standpoint as there is no genetic benefits in retaining a crossbreed heifer over a bought one.

$3000 is a lot of money and it's a long time to wait before you make that money back. Heck, even if carrying costs are half that, you can get a good heifer/cow for $1500 and be selling a calf 15 months sooner. I'm thinking for me, buying may be the way to go.

 

[Mountaintown Creek Ranch]

We keep all our heifers, but we're still establishing our herd, and we sale replacement heifers. But our herd is all registered with the exception of the steers.
Our cost to raise a heifer for 2 years is $2.15 a day.... And that's if nothing happens that requires medical attention.

 

[simme]

In the end the cheap ones are false economy and will end up costing you more... and the more expensive ones will make you more money.

For a minute, I thought I was still on the mineral discussion.

 

[TCRanch]

We haven't bought a cow since our original herd of 33 bred 2-year-olds. So yeah, I grow my own and cherry pick the ones I retain. I know the entire history of their lineage: health, longevity, docility, fertility, etc. You can't buy that.

 

[Silver]

Hay is providing both protein and energy. Energy=heat. Do you, being in a colder region than say, Jan, think your consumption rates would be lower IF you were in a more southern clime?
I don't know off the top of my head, how to figure dry matter equivalent from hay but around 28lbs per head per day DME just to maintain condition sticks in my mind.

Either way, You and GCreekrch and the folks out/up in Wy and other cold, snowy, icy, windy, 'freezin's the reason' places seem to have this cold weather thing down right and most of us here are in awe of how you manage it. (I am anyway)

But your winter inputs seem higher than what I'm used to seeing down south and I think it's not because we have 'some' winter grass..some years. Energy requirements have to be part of it.

Energy requirements make a noticeable difference in consumption rates. At -40 a cow will require a lot more than she does at 0C. Maybe 20-25 percent more? That's off the top of my head, Gcreek might have a more scientific number.

 

[gcreekrch]

Energy requirements make a noticeable difference in consumption rates. At -40 a cow will require a lot more than she does at 0C. Maybe 20-25 percent more? That's off the top of my head, Gcreek might have a more scientific number.

20% sounds about right. We've seen our cows clean up 40+ lbs when cold. Best to have some green feed or ripgut swamp hay in those temps as they create more heat than higher quality feed.

 

[Silver]

20% sounds about right. We've seen our cows clean up 40+ lbs when cold. Best to have some green feed or ripgut swamp hay in those temps as they create more heat than higher quality feed.

I save my slough grass for the really cold days. They are spoiled with some greenfeed every day.

 

[Logan52]

I have been keeping replacements since 1985. I have also bought bred heifers and one and dones, and everything in between. Many of the bought ones never quite figure out the routine and are a headache to move across the farm or get up in the lot. I understand the economic advantage of selling your calves and buying breds, but:
Mine that I raise are gentle and trust me; that is worth a lot. They know where the gaps are located between the two places, the paths through the woods and not to challenge the fences. When they see me with a stick and a dog, they head through the woods and a hidden gap along the creek and go to the other place, I don't even have to follow.
Also, I just enjoy seeing them grow and make cows. To each their own.

 

[Warren Allison]

Energy requirements make a noticeable difference in consumption rates. At -40 a cow will require a lot more than she does at 0C. Maybe 20-25 percent more? That's off the top of my head, Gcreek might have a more scientific number.

40 below?!!! I have said this before, you Canadian cowmen are a hell of a lot tougher cowboys than I am. It is in the low 50's today, windy and rainy, I ain't gonna get out of the house! I would not survive a week fooling with cattle up there. If y'all moved down here, you would think you were on vacation with nothing to do! You HAVE to know what you are doing up there, and there is very little room for mistakes. My hat's off to you Canadian and northern US cattle producers!

 

[Silver]

40 below?!!! I have said this before, you Canadian cowmen are a hell of a lot tougher cowboys than I am. It is in the low 50's today, windy and rainy, I ain't gonna get out of the house! I would not survive a week fooling with cattle up there. If y'all moved down here, you would think you were on vacation with nothing to do! You HAVE to know what you are doing up there, and there is very little room for mistakes. My hat's off to you Canadian and northern US cattle producers!

Well, we are equally baffled by your ability to survive +40C weather down there. It really seems it wouldn't be survivable. But I imagine that like us you have generations of experience shaping your ability to manage, adapt and overcome those extremes.
I figure +40C is the equal opposite of -40. I do know if you leave a wrench sitting out in either temp you don't pick it up bare handed.

 

[Dsth]

I agree with @TCRanch. I keep my own heifers as replacement for the same reason. I have been AIing for the last 20+ years and feel it would be difficult to buy replacements of the same quality. Buying or raising may depend on where you want to be in the future.

 

[BC]

No one has mentioned being able to depreciate a purchased animal as compared to treating a home raised cow the same as a calf when it is time to cull. I do both (buy and keep heifers) . In my small herd, it actually makes more sense to buy. 1) You don't have to change bulls as often; 2) having a separate pasture to keep heifers from getting bred too soon or back to their sire; 3) the labor and feed expense to grow the heifers out properly.

 

[Caustic Burno]

$3000 is a lot of money and it's a long time to wait before you make that money back. Heck, even if carrying costs are half that, you can get a good heifer/cow for $1500 and be selling a calf 15 months sooner. I'm thinking for me, buying may be the way to go.

You also have the depreciation write off as well as mentioned above on the retained heifer it's just inputs .
If the retained dies she has no value to the IRS unless bought or sold.

 

[Caustic Burno]

No one has mentioned being able to depreciate a purchased animal as compared to treating a home raised cow the same as a calf when it is time to cull. I do both (buy and keep heifers) . In my small herd, it actually makes more sense to buy. 1) You don't have to change bulls as often; 2) having a separate pasture to keep heifers from getting bred too soon or back to their sire; 3) the labor and feed expense to grow the heifers out properly.

There is no right or wrong here.
Many think retained are free and are far from it.
I have ran a registered herd as well as commercial and the goals are totally different.

 

[Brute 23]

No one has mentioned being able to depreciate a purchased animal as compared to treating a home raised cow the same as a calf when it is time to cull. I do both (buy and keep heifers) . In my small herd, it actually makes more sense to buy. 1) You don't have to change bulls as often; 2) having a separate pasture to keep heifers from getting bred too soon or back to their sire; 3) the labor and feed expense to grow the heifers out properly.

You only get to depreciate the difference between the purchase and sale price, IF you sell the animal for less.

With a home raised heifers you wrote off all the expenses to raise her. It's a wash at best.

If any thing, you may end up lowering your taxes more retaining because you didn't show revenue for the cow and you got to write off the expenses to raise the heifer.

 

[Chuckie]

Keeping records on cows and bulls and raising what I like, I think there is an advantage to keeping replacements out of your herd. Not saying that I don't run across new blood and something that is real straight that I feel can add something extra. Well, this has been my policy in the past. Now to see if the 5 I have will make nice calves. I have one good heifer so far out of one cow that I will keep.