ALACOWMAN
Well-known member
. Good BM cow ought to make it longer then that...if I couldn't keep a beef master longer then that,I'd have to shut down and retool...bigbull338":11vgyi2p said:
to what age do you keep your cows?
- Thread starter JHH
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bigbull338
Well-known member
they can stay longer than that if they bred back on time and calve with in reason.the 2 cows i culled was 4 months bred to late for my liking.wich wouldve put them a year behind.we started early calving 12-22 with bull calves on the ground by 12-25.i can make more money culling cows as needed.ALACOWMAN":iav0s7ru said:
ALACOWMAN
Well-known member
You can make money on culls as needed now..he!! Anyone can..we are raising beef not bologna
Nesikep
Well-known member
Back before I discovered my serious mineral deficiencies, The old cow I had would get late, and catch up great, and then get a bit late again.. Her 14th calf was born May 5th, which is about a good month later than when I end my season.. I gave her a pass on it, that heifer, despite being a little short on growing season was up to snuff with the rest of her mates and I kept her.. she didn't suffer from being younger. After that the old cow caught back up really well (that's about when I figured out the minerals) and had the 4th calf of the season 2 years later.
The only danger I see now in buying culls is that if the market would suddenly collapse they're be quite worthless, so unless you got several decent calves from them you'd be losing out there.. If you bought quality younger animals now, even if the market collapses you still have some value.. they may even live to a market recovery.
The only danger I see now in buying culls is that if the market would suddenly collapse they're be quite worthless, so unless you got several decent calves from them you'd be losing out there.. If you bought quality younger animals now, even if the market collapses you still have some value.. they may even live to a market recovery.
We have one that we are culling for age after weaning this year C-1135 is 15, I hate like heck to let her go but checked her teeth and it is time to pull the trigger. This is a commercial cow that has done a great job for us. We weigh cows and calves every time they go through the chute, C-1135's weight has been falling off, not just the normal falling off from having a big old calf pulling on her. I have to say she is still giving it all to the calf because she is growing a nice one. Like some on here have said you can tell when a cow just can't get the job done when you weigh the calves, you will see a smaller calf.
gizmom
gizmom
denvermartinfarms
Well-known member
As long as they are in decent condition and raising calves I keep them. Different on all of them, I have some that are up about 20 still doing the job, and I have some at 10 to 12 that will be leaving in the next year. I'm not saying this is right, but the way I feel is if the cow can still raise calves for somebody, I want it to be me, I pretty much wear all my cows out.
polledbull
Well-known member
I just culled a few that were 1999 and 2000 models , that were half blood limis ,they were still doing good and keeping condition on , but prices were high and they could go done hill fast , so I let them go , I dont want to get to many old cows in the herd percentage wise,
I prefer to turn generations. If your doing your job as a cattleman each generation should be better than the previous. I cull 2yr olds hard 3 yr olds even harder. Those individuals deemed by me to be geneticly subpar become recips the ones who can't raise a calf become burger. For the past 10 years or so I have sold groups of 6-8 yr olds to other producers. Nothing wrong with those cows they just don't suite me or the operation in some form or fashion.
Chi496":2be72wms said:
Interesting point - surprised it wasn't mentioned earlier. Also surprised that no one said "based on EPDs" - Two pages of responses and no mention of EPDs. Very interesting. I believe Gardner's doesn't keep anything past 4 or 5 years because the EPDs on the calves is improving each year. That's not how I do it, just surprised no one has mentioned it. Is that an indication of the meaninglessness of EPDs????
Chi496":2xcx0cqq said:
Ha, you beat me to this one. Was going to post this as a smart a$$.
Got a little ADD? The assumption is any change is progress eh? Trust me you are losing something besides money in a real market with this approach but as Ron has taught me, each to their own. Who are any of us to say anything
AllForage":yh30z3gq said:Chi496":yh30z3gq said:
Ha, you beat me to this one. Was going to post this as a smart a$$.
Got a little ADD? The assumption is any change is progress eh? Trust me you are losing something besides money in a real market with this approach but as Ron has taught me, each to their own. Who are any of us to say anything
Lot of people using this approach making good money. There's really good money in selling 6-8 year old breds to other folk before they need to become hamburger and, genetically, there should be progress. Also, there's certainly a need to cull 2 and 3 year olds pretty hard. I don't see anything in here that's change for change sake especially when young breds are getting the money they are. The danger may be throwing the baby out with the bathwater - older cows whose genetics are simply superior that are culled simply based on age.
Nesikep
Well-known member
I have cows that are getting old and I will never keep a heifer from, they're here because they raise a good calf every year and they're no trouble, but they would be the ones I'd cull on age.
Then I have cows that produce outstanding calves with any bull they're mated to, as well as having all the other good sides of a productive cow.. I'll keep them as long as they work for me.
This turning over the generations as quickly as possible sounds like it's done to chase a fad... I'll just take birthweights as an example.. Less is good, so even less is even better, right? So lets breed cattle with 60 lb birthweights.. we'll never have a problem calving, they can come out sideways if they need to. However, if attention isn't paid, you're going to get cows with less and less pelvis and you can be setting yourself (or customers) up for disasters when the cow is required to deliver a 100 lb calf.. something that isn't extreme or uncommon.
I look at losses at birth as a bit of a test... if you never have any, there must be some place you're losing out on.. if you have too many, you've got something wrong in the program.
Same goes for milking ability/breed back rates.. If all your cows breed back every time, that is good, but perhaps they could stand to put more energy into milk at that point.. if too many aren't breeding back, perhaps they're milking too much for the nutrition available.
Then I have cows that produce outstanding calves with any bull they're mated to, as well as having all the other good sides of a productive cow.. I'll keep them as long as they work for me.
This turning over the generations as quickly as possible sounds like it's done to chase a fad... I'll just take birthweights as an example.. Less is good, so even less is even better, right? So lets breed cattle with 60 lb birthweights.. we'll never have a problem calving, they can come out sideways if they need to. However, if attention isn't paid, you're going to get cows with less and less pelvis and you can be setting yourself (or customers) up for disasters when the cow is required to deliver a 100 lb calf.. something that isn't extreme or uncommon.
I look at losses at birth as a bit of a test... if you never have any, there must be some place you're losing out on.. if you have too many, you've got something wrong in the program.
Same goes for milking ability/breed back rates.. If all your cows breed back every time, that is good, but perhaps they could stand to put more energy into milk at that point.. if too many aren't breeding back, perhaps they're milking too much for the nutrition available.
Nesikep
Well-known member
That's right, but if you have low birthweights you can survive declining MCE... But how are EPDs going to be calculated? MCE is probably going to look good on a herd of cows that routinely have tiny calves because absolutely none of them need assistance.. There's no way to accurately say what the MCE would be if they were bred to something that would challenge their ability.
If you have a test of strength for people lifting a 25lb weight 10 times, 99.99% of them can do it.. Perhaps 99% of them can do 100 lbs, but unless you actually make them do it, you're only speculating.
If you have a test of strength for people lifting a 25lb weight 10 times, 99.99% of them can do it.. Perhaps 99% of them can do 100 lbs, but unless you actually make them do it, you're only speculating.
etr
Well-known member
I have a tender spot for older cows as that is how i got my start. our cows have to have a calf every year unassisted, raise a good calf and be bred back in a 60 day breeding season. body condition and is the cow structurally healthy, those are top of the list no matter the age and program in my opinion.
etr
etr
angus9259":2vxlnt9c said:AllForage":2vxlnt9c said:Chi496":2vxlnt9c said:
Ha, you beat me to this one. Was going to post this as a smart a$$.
Got a little ADD? The assumption is any change is progress eh? Trust me you are losing something besides money in a real market with this approach but as Ron has taught me, each to their own. Who are any of us to say anything
Lot of people using this approach making good money. There's really good money in selling 6-8 year old breds to other folk before they need to become hamburger and, genetically, there should be progress. Also, there's certainly a need to cull 2 and 3 year olds pretty hard. I don't see anything in here that's change for change sake especially when young breds are getting the money they are. The danger may be throwing the baby out with the bathwater - older cows whose genetics are simply superior that are culled simply based on age.
Your last sentence is a good point to start with. Progress, progress, progress.... It becomes nauseating.
AllForage":2uy2aaar said:
Do you keep heifers from all your cows or your best cows? It seems to me that MOST people have some definition of progress they are attempting to achieve in selecting their replacements. Then it simply becomes a question of how you're measuring progress. Teat size? Forage ability? Fertility? $B? the red ones? the black ones? the cross eyed ones? the quiet ones? the loud ones? fat ones? skinny ones? the balanced ones? It may nauseate you, but unless you have no selection criteria at all and/or no reason behind your selection criteria, you too are attempting to progress your herd. Perhaps your system is completely random and you don't care if you progress or regress. In which case....carry on.
That's what pelvic measurments are for! Just to insure that there won;t be problems.Nesikep":3s3c0inu said:
We have 2 heifers from last year from different sires but out of the same cow line. one weighed 75 lbs at birth the other 82. The 82 lb one had a yearling pelvic of 161 the little one had a yealring pelvic of 180, 160 is our minimum yearling pelvic or they go to the feedlot. It's been a long time since we have had one that didn;t measure up.
angus9259":mgy1yr0r said:
I also cull young cows hard; not because they are in any way useless, but simply because I have older cows doing it better. If I am to keep a cow it should at least equal the older cows, and not all of the young ones can do that.
By culling some of the "worst" first and second calvers the quality of that age group goes up.
If I do my job as a cattleman right the younger age groups should be better than the older age groups, at least after I have culled them, but then again the older age groups are also getting better and better as they are culled again and again through the years.
From the older more proven cows comes the heifers and bulls I keep for replacement.
By selling all of my fourth to sixth calvers to others I would be wasting all of my herd progress.
Where does the "progress" come from then? One can always reason that the progress comes from other farms through their bulls. Let us just hope that the breeders of these bulls do not think like you then, for what would it mean if they too waste their best cows at six to eight years old? :bang: :bang:
Progress is one of those deals that means something different to almost every producer. There was a yokel around here that claimed unless you are pulling 10% of your calves your not challenging your cows. He is no longer in business, he challenged his cows right out of business. We challenge our cows to calf on their own, raise a good calf and breed back all on high endophyte fescue without supplements.
