I know know one knows for sure uf it will continue but it sure looks like it at my farm. I have rotated, fertilized, seeded, everything I know to do and with current temps approching 100 and very little rain this summer, we are about a week from being out of grass.I have 160 acres that I use for harvesting hay from. First cutting was about half what it normally is. The grass is growing but not very dense. Should I continue to graze where I am now and cut the 160ac or run the cattle on it and not get another hay cutting unless we get some rain. I have rotated pastures and even in the pastures I am keeping the cattle off, the growth is not very good. I am wondering if I continue to bail the hay and start to maybe feed a little early and have hay or I can turn the cattle on my hay ground and run the risk of not getting much rain the rest of the summer and hurting my hay for this winter. I am going to cull 15-25 breds, pairs or older cows. I have kept the best I raise over the years so I wouldn't call them culls from a production standpoint but something that must be done. I have never raised cattle through 2 consecutive droughts. Last year my cows were WAY ahead of my grass growth and we got a little rain and had hope this summer but that quickly was met with heat and no rain. any tips would be appreciated
tips for ongoing drought
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Rough'n'Ready Plantation
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Plb- I definitely feel your pain. We are about 2-3 weeks from being out of grass here. During last summer's drought we were able to buy hay to make up for the lack of forage, but now the hay supply is exhausted in the Arklatex so hay is very expensive to come by. Going through 2 years of drought without irrigation is a nightmare for any producer. If I was in your position i'd probably run the cows on the hay pasture and then buy more hay this winter. I think the only thing that will save our region this summer is multiple tropical storms/hurricanes. A few articles that I have read have said this drought may be part of a 25 year long term dry spell. Best of luck to you....
-Lee
-Lee
Rough'n'Ready Plantation":24vawi8x said:
I may be wrong here, but the last thing I would do is compromise any hay I could produce. Having been in drought conditions up here for the last 7 years with the drought continuing, I can promise you one thing - the longer the drought goes on the scarcer the hay is going to become, the higher the price is going to go, more people are going to sell out, the price of cattle will fall in your area, and people will be going broke. If I had a hayfield I would preserve it as an ace in the hole and downsize my herd to the point I could exist on what I could produce if need be, while keeping an eye out for reasonably priced hay. It's tempting to graze it, but it doesn't take but about one year of exorbitant hay prices to put someone out of business. More experienced members tell me where I'm wrong.
Rough'n'Ready Plantation
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Well I wouldn't normally advocate turning your hay pasture over to the cows, but desperate times call for desperate measures. If you think you will get some rainfall this fall/winter but close to none this summer, it might be more cost effective to graze your hayfield now and then plant rye/clover in the fall instead of feeding hay all winter. With such low yields for hayfields, you may reach a point where the marginal cost of producing hay is greater than the marginal revenue (stage 1 of production for all you ag. economists out there).
Rough'n'Ready Plantation":3mf3gq21 said:
How is that rye/clover going to germinate and grow with no rain? I'm not familiar with a lot of areas but, based on the ones I have lived in, fall is not usually known for being the rainy season. Even if it were, the upcoming winter would cause the clover/rye grass to go dormant and probably frost kill new seedlings but, again, I may be wrong.
Don't graze the hay field. Since ou don;t like the term cull, thin down your herd, way down. Haul the cows to an area that isn't affected or as seriously affected as yours. Beat the rush. Cow prices are declining because of the ongoing drought get down to the size you can feed now. It hurts to dispose of genetics that you've worked to develop. Hurts worse to see those genetics sell for low kill proces as the drought continues. Got the shirt!
If you do stat getting rain, it will take a lot longer for your forage to to recover the worse it's been abused.
dun
If you do stat getting rain, it will take a lot longer for your forage to to recover the worse it's been abused.
dun
HAY MAKER
Well-known member
No easy choices in these hard times,drought just seems never ending.I have sold down every year for a while now and plan the same for this year,Its my humble opinion the hardest thing for a cow/calf man is to sell brood cows,but before I do,I am gonna graze my hay fields, as they arent worth cutting,hopeing that will get me closer to fall,then plant oats ,wheat and rye for winter grazing ,if the fall rains dont hit the TX Hill country,this year we will sell again,our thoughts have always been "we dont buy hay we sell cattle" that may change this year "if" we can find hay.............good luck
OP
OP
plbcattle
Well-known member
Have you ever had one of those days were everything went right. So right in fact I am thinking I will get ran over by a train or struck by lightning.Things picked up today. I just got access to graze my cattle on 120 acres of great bermuda pasture next door. I was renting the land and it sold to a developer for twice what I was willing to pay. I removed my cattle as they were getting it surveyed and begin to develop and sell lots. Well they told me today I could graze the pasture all summer for free because it would be winter before they are going to begin work. the rain gods must have been looking out for me. I hope I don't fall on a string of bad luck because today was one of those days that doesn't happen often.
Caustic Burno
Well-known member
This is from a few years ago from TAMU
Marketing Cull Cows -- Understanding What Determines Value
Under drought conditions it is likely many operations will experience lower conception rates than normal. Feed costs and uncertainty about growing seasons next year make culling of these open cows appear to be the correct management decision. In an average year, cull cows will represent 10% to 20% of gross revenue on a cow-calf operation. Informed marketing, rather than simply selling, can add to income from cull cow and bull sales.
When factors affecting value are understood, culls can be marketed to take advantage of seasonal trends and fluctuations in cow condition. Factors affecting value are sale weight, body condition, muscling, quality and blemishes, all of which can be managed at the ranch to add value to the culls. Cull cow value is based on percent lean meat yield and live weight.
Cows are graded into four broad categories, Canner, Cutter, Utility, and Commercial. Table 1 indicates characteristics associated with each grade. Canners are thin, emaciated cows which have lost muscle mass due to poor nutrition or health. Cutters are thin to moderate in flesh. Little muscle mass has been lost but no excess condition is being carried.
Table 1. Cull Cow Grades and Characteristics
Grade Dressing Percent Lean Content of Trimmings Cow BCS Currenta Mkt. Value $/cwt
Canner 40-46 90-92 1-3 18-25b
Cutter 45-49 88-90 4-5 20-34
Utility
Boning 50-52 78-83 5-9 25-34
Breaking 52-54 76-82 6-9 22-33
Commercial 55-60 70-80 5-9 38-50
a Values reported as of July 24, 1998.
b Cows could be subject to light carcass discounts.
Cows grading Utility carry higher levels of condition. (It is a fat cow grade.) Utility is further divided into Boning and Breaking classifications as well. Cow tenders, strips and top rounds can be, and often are, pulled from cows grading Boning Utility.
Breaking Utility cows have sufficient intramuscular fat (marbling) and muscling for the primals (particularly cuts from the rib and loin) to be used outside the ground meat trade. This greatly increases the carcass value of these cows. Cows that will grade Breaking Utility are very difficult, if not impossible, to determine before processing. It is not practical to manage cows with the goal of producing Breaking Utility grade.
Carcasses grading Commercial are normally from younger cows that fall into C maturity (approximately 42 months old or older). Primal cuts are routinely pulled from these cattle and use in restaurant trade.
Canner cows bring a lower price per pound than Cutter, Utility or Commercial cows. Cutters normally have a higher price per pound than Canner or Utility. Recently, Utility cows are selling for more per pound than Cutter cows. Utility cows bring a price per pound that is usually intermediate to Cutters and Canners, but will often have more total dollar income due to extra live weight. Producers should target cows for the high yielding Cutter or Boning Utility grade.
Caution should be exercised when marketing cows directly to a packing plant. Cows that grade high Cutter and Utility will probably be discounted if they have too much external fat. Packers discount what they classify as fat cows. Unlike processing facilities for feedlot cattle, cow processors sort cow carcasses according to the described criteria. They are not graded by a USDA grader or stamped with the packer grades.
When selling cows directly to the packer another discount to be aware of is for light carcasses. Carcasses weighing less than 350 pounds receive up to $15/cwt discount. The Canner grade is most likely to produce light carcasses. Thin, emaciated cows are discounted at the sale barn to compensate for the probability of light carcasses. For example, a cow with a body condition score (BCS) of 3, weighing 800 pounds and dressing 40%, would hang up a 320-pound carcass. A $15/cwt discount equals $48 per head, or $6/cwt on a live-weight basis. This is in addition to the lower price per pound for Canner cows.
Cows are inspected by USDA inspectors at processing. Condemnations are the result of the USDA inspector, not plant management. Condemnation is due to pathological conditions only, most commonly due to cancerous conditions which have spread out of a localized organ such as an eye.
The most competitive environment for selling cull cows is still the local auction facility. Unless a prearranged price is agreed upon and conditions for determining carcass value are set, it is risky to sell directly to a processing plant.
To maximize value of cull cows, consider some or all of the following changes in management if they appear to be profitable.
1. Add weight to thin cull cows before selling. This is particularly valuable when cows are BCS 3 or lower at culling. High quality forage efficiently replenishes muscle mass on cows. Extremely old cows may not gain as efficiently as younger cows. Target a BCS of 5 for light muscled cows and BCS 5-6 for heavier muscled cows.
2. Cull old cows before they lose their teeth, decline in body condition and fail to breed. Besides having lower cull weight and value, such cows have also weaned lighter calves than the younger cows for probably at least two years.
3. Explore selling directly to a packer on a prearranged price. Caution should be exercised! Bids are more competitive at local auctions. Only a knowledgeable producer should attempt to market good quality cows directly to a packer.
4. Market crippled cattle directly to a packer, without going through usual marketing channels. Cows with other blemishes, such as bad eyes, probably should also be sold directly to a packer.
5. Sell cows before they become fat (BCS 8-9). Fat cows are discounted for low lean yield regardless of their potential to classify as Breaking Utility.
6. Sell cows outside seasonal marketing trends. Cull cow prices are normally lowest in October and November. If possible, consider marketing between February and September when slaughter rates are lower.
7. Consider cull cows as a valuable asset and handle them as such. Bruising is a major problem with cull cows. Most bruises are caused by rough handling and hauling from the time they are sorted at the ranch until they are processed at the cow plant.
8. Always be cautious and concerned about withdrawal times when marketing cows which have been treated with any kind of pesticide, antibiotic or any other chemical compound.
Summary
Sell early before all that is left is a shell of a cow. Try not to market cows that are too thin or too fat. Sell before blemishes become problems. Sell crippled cattle and cows with obvious blemishes directly to the packer.
Eliminate small framed cows, which produce less pounds of saleable product of less value to the ground meat processor, a double loser. Reasonable cow weights should be 1000-1250 pounds. Moderate framed cows (frame score 5) with average muscling in a BCS 5 should weight from 1150-1250 pounds at maturity.
Obviously light muscled, early maturing bulls should not be purchased in the first place. However, cull bulls should be marketed with as much muscling as possible and as little fat as practical.
Marketing Cull Cows -- Understanding What Determines Value
Under drought conditions it is likely many operations will experience lower conception rates than normal. Feed costs and uncertainty about growing seasons next year make culling of these open cows appear to be the correct management decision. In an average year, cull cows will represent 10% to 20% of gross revenue on a cow-calf operation. Informed marketing, rather than simply selling, can add to income from cull cow and bull sales.
When factors affecting value are understood, culls can be marketed to take advantage of seasonal trends and fluctuations in cow condition. Factors affecting value are sale weight, body condition, muscling, quality and blemishes, all of which can be managed at the ranch to add value to the culls. Cull cow value is based on percent lean meat yield and live weight.
Cows are graded into four broad categories, Canner, Cutter, Utility, and Commercial. Table 1 indicates characteristics associated with each grade. Canners are thin, emaciated cows which have lost muscle mass due to poor nutrition or health. Cutters are thin to moderate in flesh. Little muscle mass has been lost but no excess condition is being carried.
Table 1. Cull Cow Grades and Characteristics
Grade Dressing Percent Lean Content of Trimmings Cow BCS Currenta Mkt. Value $/cwt
Canner 40-46 90-92 1-3 18-25b
Cutter 45-49 88-90 4-5 20-34
Utility
Boning 50-52 78-83 5-9 25-34
Breaking 52-54 76-82 6-9 22-33
Commercial 55-60 70-80 5-9 38-50
a Values reported as of July 24, 1998.
b Cows could be subject to light carcass discounts.
Cows grading Utility carry higher levels of condition. (It is a fat cow grade.) Utility is further divided into Boning and Breaking classifications as well. Cow tenders, strips and top rounds can be, and often are, pulled from cows grading Boning Utility.
Breaking Utility cows have sufficient intramuscular fat (marbling) and muscling for the primals (particularly cuts from the rib and loin) to be used outside the ground meat trade. This greatly increases the carcass value of these cows. Cows that will grade Breaking Utility are very difficult, if not impossible, to determine before processing. It is not practical to manage cows with the goal of producing Breaking Utility grade.
Carcasses grading Commercial are normally from younger cows that fall into C maturity (approximately 42 months old or older). Primal cuts are routinely pulled from these cattle and use in restaurant trade.
Canner cows bring a lower price per pound than Cutter, Utility or Commercial cows. Cutters normally have a higher price per pound than Canner or Utility. Recently, Utility cows are selling for more per pound than Cutter cows. Utility cows bring a price per pound that is usually intermediate to Cutters and Canners, but will often have more total dollar income due to extra live weight. Producers should target cows for the high yielding Cutter or Boning Utility grade.
Caution should be exercised when marketing cows directly to a packing plant. Cows that grade high Cutter and Utility will probably be discounted if they have too much external fat. Packers discount what they classify as fat cows. Unlike processing facilities for feedlot cattle, cow processors sort cow carcasses according to the described criteria. They are not graded by a USDA grader or stamped with the packer grades.
When selling cows directly to the packer another discount to be aware of is for light carcasses. Carcasses weighing less than 350 pounds receive up to $15/cwt discount. The Canner grade is most likely to produce light carcasses. Thin, emaciated cows are discounted at the sale barn to compensate for the probability of light carcasses. For example, a cow with a body condition score (BCS) of 3, weighing 800 pounds and dressing 40%, would hang up a 320-pound carcass. A $15/cwt discount equals $48 per head, or $6/cwt on a live-weight basis. This is in addition to the lower price per pound for Canner cows.
Cows are inspected by USDA inspectors at processing. Condemnations are the result of the USDA inspector, not plant management. Condemnation is due to pathological conditions only, most commonly due to cancerous conditions which have spread out of a localized organ such as an eye.
The most competitive environment for selling cull cows is still the local auction facility. Unless a prearranged price is agreed upon and conditions for determining carcass value are set, it is risky to sell directly to a processing plant.
To maximize value of cull cows, consider some or all of the following changes in management if they appear to be profitable.
1. Add weight to thin cull cows before selling. This is particularly valuable when cows are BCS 3 or lower at culling. High quality forage efficiently replenishes muscle mass on cows. Extremely old cows may not gain as efficiently as younger cows. Target a BCS of 5 for light muscled cows and BCS 5-6 for heavier muscled cows.
2. Cull old cows before they lose their teeth, decline in body condition and fail to breed. Besides having lower cull weight and value, such cows have also weaned lighter calves than the younger cows for probably at least two years.
3. Explore selling directly to a packer on a prearranged price. Caution should be exercised! Bids are more competitive at local auctions. Only a knowledgeable producer should attempt to market good quality cows directly to a packer.
4. Market crippled cattle directly to a packer, without going through usual marketing channels. Cows with other blemishes, such as bad eyes, probably should also be sold directly to a packer.
5. Sell cows before they become fat (BCS 8-9). Fat cows are discounted for low lean yield regardless of their potential to classify as Breaking Utility.
6. Sell cows outside seasonal marketing trends. Cull cow prices are normally lowest in October and November. If possible, consider marketing between February and September when slaughter rates are lower.
7. Consider cull cows as a valuable asset and handle them as such. Bruising is a major problem with cull cows. Most bruises are caused by rough handling and hauling from the time they are sorted at the ranch until they are processed at the cow plant.
8. Always be cautious and concerned about withdrawal times when marketing cows which have been treated with any kind of pesticide, antibiotic or any other chemical compound.
Summary
Sell early before all that is left is a shell of a cow. Try not to market cows that are too thin or too fat. Sell before blemishes become problems. Sell crippled cattle and cows with obvious blemishes directly to the packer.
Eliminate small framed cows, which produce less pounds of saleable product of less value to the ground meat processor, a double loser. Reasonable cow weights should be 1000-1250 pounds. Moderate framed cows (frame score 5) with average muscling in a BCS 5 should weight from 1150-1250 pounds at maturity.
Obviously light muscled, early maturing bulls should not be purchased in the first place. However, cull bulls should be marketed with as much muscling as possible and as little fat as practical.
Texan
Well-known member
Believe it or not HAY MAKER, but I agree with you for a change. :lol: Selling down is always the number one choice for me. After that, sell down some more. But there will come a time when a cattleman has sold all he thinks he can stand and has to try to save some cows to start back with. And if it takes grazing hay meadows to get those cows through until rain, or even to recoup some fertilizer money, it's a no-brainer.HAY MAKER":2qbqwt8i said:
In the kind of dry weather we're having, meadows will burn up whether you cut them or not. May as well get something out of them. You might have a few more weeds next year by not cutting this year. Generally speaking though, in time your meadows will forgive you for grazing them---as long as you take some and leave some.
Caustic Burno
Well-known member
Texan":13irozwd said:
Already turned mine in the hayfield grass is short and weeds are tall. I am bailing pipelines, road ditches anything that has grass.
