http://abs-bs.absglobal.com/beef/angus. ... =237AN2102
Let me know your thoughts on this bull for AI. Looking for replacement heifers.
Let me know your thoughts on this bull for AI. Looking for replacement heifers.
Thoughts on this for AI
- Thread starter dt34715
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cow pollinater
Well-known member
He's made a lot of people happy. I've almost used him myself a few times but he's just not quite the best fit for me.
You could certainly do a lot worse.
You could certainly do a lot worse.
dt34715":2dtgr1as said:
20 to 25 we're dry country and if they are too milky here they fall apart when raising a calf.
I'd still use him. My friend has raised some Hoover Dams here and they were incredibly thick calves.
The Ideal Milk number is different for every environment and subject to forrage quality, quantity, and availability throught the year. For my part of the country I want a cow that matures at a 5 frame and 1200-1250# and the ideal Angus milk epd for me is 21-24. That milk epd would not be ideal in other parts of the country. Some would need more and others less...dt34715":2dxs4w6k said:
aprille218
Well-known member
We have a couple Hoover Dam heifers this year. VERY nice and pretty mellow acting too.
I saw some pairs a year or so ago and the calves were all sired by him. I was very impressed with the heifer calves. Made me think about useing him this year. What other bulls have yall seen that are proven and moderate framed with a bit less milk that you would use?
I bred a few of my Hereford cows to Hoover dam a few years ago. I have 1 bred heifer out of him. She has a little more frame than I prefer. She's fairly thick and has some length. Her leg structure is on the posty side and she has the worst feet of any heifer I've ever had. I was told Hoover dam was one of the better footed angus bulls so it's a bit disappointing.
Just used him last week and will be using him on most of our upcoming spring calving mommas when we start AI ing again in May.
I've noticed his $EN has improved quite a bit over the last year or two. MILK has been coming down too
I've noticed his $EN has improved quite a bit over the last year or two. MILK has been coming down too
DOC HARRIS
Well-known member
I agree with 3way regarding Milk EPD's.
I am a 'die-hard' conservative when it comes to mixing Milk traits in conjunction with Growth and Carcass traits and characteristics. By attempting to come up with a "magic potion" which combines Growth traits, Carcass traits AND Maternal (MILK) traits into perfectly-performing BEEF MACHINES we run into genetic problems in regard to heritability traits - which are antagonistic to each other, and which result in skewed expectations. For example - it has been found that certain correlated physical-type changes usually occur when intense selection for femininity (Milk EPD's) are stressed in matings resulting in cows that lack muscle and capacity ("Funnel Butts" and shallow bodies (Dairy type, if you will). Also - LONG TERM selection for low birth weight may decrease muscling and increase calving difficulty for replacement heifers due to reduced pelvic area. The important factors here are to realize that the operative phrases are "Long Term" and "Intense Selection" over time.
The above results and genetic "ricochetting" of specific traits and characteristics just intensify the importance of stressing "BALANCE" with EPD's and "Functional" traits, and the intelligent use of all of the stockmanship factors in beef cattle breeding.
I received an email recently from a CT reader (NOT a contributor) who sarcastically criticized me for always "yapping" about EPD's and "Balancing" basic traits. My answer to him was "You DAM right I do"!
Hoover Dam is a bull that more than adequately "balances" MOST EPD's and traits - with MY exception of his MILK trait. It is too high! By the same token, one must be diligent in "Balancing" common horse sense with selection processes when one animal has 18 or 20 traits and characteristics that are optimal, and perhaps one or two which are not so desirable. THAT'S where common sense should prevail, and extremes must be avoided. An EPD of +30 (Hoover Dam for example) should not determine that his use in AI should be thrown out with the bath water! By balancing the +30 with the lesser Milk EPD's of the cows to whom he is mated can result with replacement heifers possessing more desirable Milk EPD's - - so long as their OTHER traits are in BALANCE with his! I call it the "Teeter-Totter Effect" of practical mating protocols. Moderation with each breeding decision will result in gradual but SUCCESSFUL Profits. I prefer to see Milk EPD's not over +25 - in almost ALL cases.
I would use Hoover Dam in a "Ft. Worth" Minute if I have the females to balance with him! His accuracies are excellent! . . . and if I didn't have the females, I would use him on those who were as close to him as possible and then find another bull to balance with his heifers for genetic improvement. THEN - breed those replacements BACK to Hoover Dam!! The possibilities of improvement make the butterflies in my stomach flutter!
DOC HARRIS
I am a 'die-hard' conservative when it comes to mixing Milk traits in conjunction with Growth and Carcass traits and characteristics. By attempting to come up with a "magic potion" which combines Growth traits, Carcass traits AND Maternal (MILK) traits into perfectly-performing BEEF MACHINES we run into genetic problems in regard to heritability traits - which are antagonistic to each other, and which result in skewed expectations. For example - it has been found that certain correlated physical-type changes usually occur when intense selection for femininity (Milk EPD's) are stressed in matings resulting in cows that lack muscle and capacity ("Funnel Butts" and shallow bodies (Dairy type, if you will). Also - LONG TERM selection for low birth weight may decrease muscling and increase calving difficulty for replacement heifers due to reduced pelvic area. The important factors here are to realize that the operative phrases are "Long Term" and "Intense Selection" over time.
The above results and genetic "ricochetting" of specific traits and characteristics just intensify the importance of stressing "BALANCE" with EPD's and "Functional" traits, and the intelligent use of all of the stockmanship factors in beef cattle breeding.
I received an email recently from a CT reader (NOT a contributor) who sarcastically criticized me for always "yapping" about EPD's and "Balancing" basic traits. My answer to him was "You DAM right I do"!
Hoover Dam is a bull that more than adequately "balances" MOST EPD's and traits - with MY exception of his MILK trait. It is too high! By the same token, one must be diligent in "Balancing" common horse sense with selection processes when one animal has 18 or 20 traits and characteristics that are optimal, and perhaps one or two which are not so desirable. THAT'S where common sense should prevail, and extremes must be avoided. An EPD of +30 (Hoover Dam for example) should not determine that his use in AI should be thrown out with the bath water! By balancing the +30 with the lesser Milk EPD's of the cows to whom he is mated can result with replacement heifers possessing more desirable Milk EPD's - - so long as their OTHER traits are in BALANCE with his! I call it the "Teeter-Totter Effect" of practical mating protocols. Moderation with each breeding decision will result in gradual but SUCCESSFUL Profits. I prefer to see Milk EPD's not over +25 - in almost ALL cases.
I would use Hoover Dam in a "Ft. Worth" Minute if I have the females to balance with him! His accuracies are excellent! . . . and if I didn't have the females, I would use him on those who were as close to him as possible and then find another bull to balance with his heifers for genetic improvement. THEN - breed those replacements BACK to Hoover Dam!! The possibilities of improvement make the butterflies in my stomach flutter!
DOC HARRIS
Doc
Well said I wish I had the ability to express myself as well as you. We haven't used the Hoover Dam bull but I do like him.
gizmom
Well said I wish I had the ability to express myself as well as you. We haven't used the Hoover Dam bull but I do like him.
gizmom
cow pollinater
Well-known member
Absolute is making lots of happy customers.Isomade":h1yic7ht said:
Rito6em3 made one herd bull for me that I wish I still had around. He was a snorty little ba$tard but his daughters are hard to fault.
B3r back to basics is at origen and I'm thinking about using him on what's left of my registered cows to make a heifer bull but there is such a thing as to gentle so I'm on the fence with that one.
There are LOTS of red bulls that fit the criteria except for the color part.
