Thoughts on these herf bulls

[WichitaLineMan]

No, I did not use him.

You are using some well placed ..........'s to make it even more confusing.

I was saying that his milk EPD was not the factor that kept me from using him. It was his pedigree.

 

[smnherf]

No, I did not use him.

You are using some well placed ..........'s to make it even more confusing.

I was saying that his milk EPD was not the factor that kept me from using him. It was his pedigree.

I didn't mean to make it confusing. Just eliminating the parts I didn't question.

I don't like his pedigree either. Don't know yet if that will keep me from trying him though.

Brian

 

[Baldie Maker]

Since we're talking about M326 and his progeny, what about this bull who's grandsire is M326. Just added to Genex so he is unproven.

http://genex.crinet.com/beef/index.php? ... 31&lang=EN

 

[KNERSIE]

Since we're talking about M326 and his progeny, what about this bull who's grandsire is M326. Just added to Genex so he is unproven.

http://genex.crinet.com/beef/index.php? ... 31&lang=EN

He definately ISN'T straight shouldered. ;-)

I wouldn't be too keen on 242 on the bottom side, but he looks good, I would just want to see his muzzle and mouth at close range before filling the tank.

 

[oakcreekfarms]

I believe Rib Eye's success can be seen in Kevins sale, he is a bull that does a lot of things right. His daughters are pretty uddered, have enough depth, enough muscle, and a set of EPD's to work around. He may not be the power bull of the century, but I don't think that is what Kevin has seen or promoted him as. He is a good bull, that produces functional and moderate across the board calves. Over the last two years my heaviest bull calves have been Ribeyes, and they had the most muscle and biggest scrotal.

I have been looking at Thor, TH Bismarck, Embassy, and that new Maxx calf. As well as some other canadian bred bulls.

 

[rocket2222]

Since we're talking about M326 and his progeny, what about this bull who's grandsire is M326. Just added to Genex so he is unproven.

http://genex.crinet.com/beef/index.php? ... 31&lang=EN

He definately ISN'T straight shouldered. ;-)

I wouldn't be too keen on 242 on the bottom side, but he looks good, I would just want to see his muzzle and mouth at close range before filling the tank.

Yes, I hear ya. :lol: But hey, If they all looked like his, I wouldn't have to much of a problem with them. :clap: Now if he didn't have Mr Simimental and Mr One-nutter on his dams side, we might have something.

 

[rocket2222]

I believe Rib Eye's success can be seen in Kevins sale, he is a bull that does a lot of things right. His daughters are pretty uddered, have enough depth, enough muscle, and a set of EPD's to work around. He may not be the power bull of the century, but I don't think that is what Kevin has seen or promoted him as. He is a good bull, that produces functional and moderate across the board calves. Over the last two years my heaviest bull calves have been Ribeyes, and they had the most muscle and biggest scrotal.

I have been looking at Thor, TH Bismarck, Embassy, and that new Maxx calf. As well as some other canadian bred bulls.

Who's Maxx.

 

[oakcreekfarms]

I really don't know much about him, I have been looking for a way to possibly use remitall Patriot without using remitall patriot. He seems to be a decent EPD'd son, and looks decent in his picture. Larson hereford farms owns him, might be something to look into I guess. He isn't exactly new, just new to me I suppose.

 

[LFF]

Just a simple question.

Do you folks ever search the AHA data base for bulls that are not well known or highly promoted?

I understand many wanting proven bulls, however there are many bulls that are not well known or promoted that have considerable data available on their calf crop.

 

[JHH]

What about this bull Alan.

http://www.herfnet.com/online/cgi-bin/i ... 2258272525

He may not have enough marb for you. But I think his numbers look ok and no real extreams.

 

[rocket2222]

Just a simple question.

Do you folks ever search the AHA data base for bulls that are not well known or highly promoted?

I understand many wanting proven bulls, however there are many bulls that are not well known or promoted that have considerable data available on their calf crop.

There's a search function, you mean like Google or something. WOW. :shock:

 

[Baldie Maker]

What about this bull Alan.

http://www.herfnet.com/online/cgi-bin/i ... 2258272525

He may not have enough marb for you. But I think his numbers look ok and no real extreams.

That's a bull that I too have wondered about but with that being the only picture I know of it's hard to tell much about him considering he's chest high in grass, he does have a nice level top and head imo tho.

 

[Hereford76]

It was his pedigree.

which was....?

 

[Alan]

Thanks for all the good replies, it did give me plenty of food for thought and a bit of an eye opener on how to further look at cattle. while I have gone down the road of good carcuss traits and quality I have also been working on moderate framed fast growing cattle. One of the many pieces of info I got was not to throw too many bulls in the mix each year. So thanks you again, I think I'll probably add some 3027 to the tank and hope for the best. Harland is a widely used bull by some of the top Hereford breeders but the 6.4 ended my thoughts on him, I would like to see more calves from Revolution, and the past post on him really was not that helpful other than he hasn't been used too much, I was hoping for new info on him. I'm not a big fan of the "young bull of the day" market, Although I really like my Red Obsidian daughter, moderate and easy fleshing, too bad I lost the Progress heifer out of her this year.... a bit of a set back I'm afraid. The only thing I can think of that happened was she was stuck in the birth cannal too long and may have developed some brain damage..... but only guessing and grasping at straws. :( Back to Red Obsidian, I really like what I'm seeing from him, but I have M326 in the tank as well as Rib Eye, at this point I can't justify putting more M326 genetics in the tank... so 3027.

Thanks again,
Alan

 

[Herefords.US]

Just a simple question.

Do you folks ever search the AHA data base for bulls that are not well known or highly promoted?

I understand many wanting proven bulls, however there are many bulls that are not well known or promoted that have considerable data available on their calf crop.

In the past, I've done a huge number of searches via the AHA database. Most of those I did back when I was searching for answers regarding the validity of EPDs and the discrepancies and periodic changes I was seeing in them as more data came in.

Such a search might net you a bull or two that are worth watching, but you're really taking a gamble if you try them and don't first do an extensive amount of research by contacting those who have first-hand experience with the bulls. 157K was one of those good bulls I found early on by doing those type searches. A bull whose semen I have in my tank is RJH New Dimension K40. When I bought it he was an unproven +3.0 BW bull. Today he is a PROVEN +6.9 BW bull, with a CED of -10.3 - and that 20 straws of semen I have will never be used by me. The "evolving" of P606's EPDs have been discussed here before.

4011 (Ben) has probably been the bull I've followed that has been the biggest surprise to me. He was the "hoss" of Colyer's calf crop that year - with a 106 lb. actual BW and the best weight and performance numbers that they had experienced through that time in their herd. Much like Cooper's 994 bull this year, I thought he was worth watching, but a "wait and see" bull, and I fully expected him to be a bit much bull for most cow herds and especially heifers. 4011 has subsequently proven to be a "calving ease" bull with a BW EPD of +1.7 and a rather impressive set of proven EPDs across the board. His semen is a little higher than Harland's, but I think he does everything that Harland will do and adds a little more depth of body.

The problem I see with doing those type of exploratory searches is that when you start refining the searches down to those where there is actually some accuracy in the EPDs (.6 or higher), you still end up with the more popular, widely used bulls like Harland, Rib Eye, etc.

And I think most smaller breeders will get the most benefit from using those highly proven bulls with the reliable EPDs. They just have to figure out what they want for their herd.

George

 

[WichitaLineMan]

It was his pedigree.

which was....?

To me it was a fire and ice mating. An outcross. Good Line one genetics on good Canadian genetics. Makes a good animal (as we can see) but can he reproduce himself?

 

[rocket2222]

I did a little more of a extensive search on Harland the other day, looking at some of the data of the cows he been bred to, especially the ones that the breeders have turned frame scores in on. You would be surprised how many 7 and 8 frame cows he's been bred to, there was a number of smaller frame cows that were not holding down frame at all when bred to other bulls, 5 frames that were consistently having offspring in the high 6's. His average progeny frame score may not be so high after all, considering what he's being bred too. I was going to use him early on to compare him with my Churchill bull, but ran out of time that year on picking the semen up. Later I didn't like that his daughters look like they were having above average calving problems, this doesn't seem to be the case now more data been turned in. Really like that he seem to be leaving some fat on them.

 

[KNERSIE]

Really like that he seem to be leaving some fat on them.

So do I, but I fear we are in the minority.

 

[WichitaLineMan]

I agree, I think BF is directly related to "doing ability".

Are you two saying that you actively look for a higher BF EPD?

 

[KNERSIE]

I agree, I think BF is directly related to "doing ability".

Are you two saying that you actively look for a higher BF EPD?

As soon as you've bred the BF away you've bred the hereford out of the bovine.