thinking out loud

[cross_7]

another post got me to thinking about the types of cattle we raise.
i started not to post this because i'm afraid it will turn into a "what breeds best" argument, but i'll try it anyway.
most people have cows that fit their environment and bulls that put on the most pounds with no regards to the quality of beef.
if we're not using any type of carcass epd or getting any carcass data back on your calves then you have no idea if your raising prime beef or mcdonalds hamburgers.
if you watch superior sales you know certain reputation ranches cattle always bring more due to the quality of the cattle.
lots of ranchers retain ownership and raise cattle based on the results, but i hear people say things like so and so crosses are sure good.
they may look good but are good beef ?
some people say i get paid by the pound so i'm not breeding for carcass quality but for pounds and dollars in my pocket.
at what point does the packer say no more ?

 

[circlebllc]

It's not what the packer wants. He is providing a service, also paid per lb. The retail consumer is the final decision maker. Educating the consumer to better beef is the only way.

 

[TexasBred]

Most sellers, especially small operators simply sell cattle....calves.....it's up to the buyer to determine the quality and that quality will usually be reflected in the price they pay.

 

[cross_7]

when the packer buys 2 loads of fats both go to slaughter.
one group grades well and they make money
next group doesn't grade well and lose money.
at what point does the packer say no more, we're paying based on quality.
of course things will trickle down from there.
feedyards and stocker operators will contract with reputation ranches and unknown/salebarn cattle will be discounted ?

 

[cross_7]

now that i think about it i guess maybe we are seeing a form of that with the cab cattle.

 

[Caustic Burno]

now that i think about it i guess maybe we are seeing a form of that with the cab cattle.

Well Cross since you trying to get everyone confused and mudding the waters with logic.

I have been thinking about starting a new program to make money want to be the CFO of CABB to play off CAB while confusion still exsist's.

We could put our little sign at the meat counter with a little black cow, we can make millions.
Now CABB stands for Certified and better Brangus has to 90% black with a little loose hide and ear.

 

[cross_7]

now that i think about it i guess maybe we are seeing a form of that with the cab cattle.

i shouldn't have said that because it opens the whole not all cab are angus and etc. etc.
thats not my point.
i really haven't thought this through, like i said kind of thinking out loud.
heard on the radio and on rfdtv agday that due to this years drought lots of young calves were put in the feedyard and they stalled out early and are not grading well, but the feeders are asking 1.20 for them.
the packers are saying there is shortage of quality beef they are willing to pay for it, but most of the cattle on the show list is lower quality.
i feel at some point we will be paid according to the quality of the beef we raise.
i'm not sure how it will come to be, but i think we're going to see big changes.
i don't see the packers to continue paying the same price for lower quality beef as good quality
i feel like the breeding your favorite cows to the bull of the month with no regards to quality will come to an end and
the focus will be more on the end result.
i'm really not trying to stir the pot and i truly beleive there are too many people breeding junk(go to your local sale)
i think those guys will be out of business or going to have to make some changes.
in the past the the tools to improve quality(beef) were not always available like they are today, so i think now the people that do will be rewarded and the rest will be left out.

sorry to ramble, it's been a long week and i travel a lot so i have lots of time with just the radio and my thoughts.

 

[LFF]

I am a seedstock producer that focuses on carcass quality.

Some of the things other producers say against breeders striving for quality are:

1) Pounds pay , carcass quality does not bring them extra dollars.
My reply) They are right unless you have a market to sell quality beef. Sale barns are not the place to sell added value quality.

2) Maternial qualities are more important.
My reply) Maternial quality are highly important, however I believe that you can have both.

3) Cattle must have looks and show well to attract buyers.
My reply) Looks are nice and if you are selling show calves it pays more, however very few calves are sold for showing. Cattle are for producing food and feeding people. I am keep the best quality and looking calves that I produce and can buy. I determine their beef quality by ultrasound testing at one year of age. I feed the calves to average less than .25 inches of back fat, so they do not have inflated marbling scores.

Currently you are fine producing feeders for pounds and not worrying about quality. Buyers at sale barns have a good ideal which calves are likely to produce better quality and they make a calculated bid price for them. If you have a buyer that knows your cattle grade above average , he will pay extra.

 

[cross_7]

I am a seedstock producer that focuses on carcass quality.

Some of the things other producers say against breeders striving for quality are:

1) Pounds pay , carcass quality does not bring them extra dollars.
My reply) They are right unless you have a market to sell quality beef. Sale barns are not the place to sell added value quality.

2) Maternial qualities are more important.
My reply) Maternial quality are highly important, however I believe that you can have both.

3) Cattle must have looks and show well to attract buyers.
My reply) Looks are nice and if you are selling show calves it pays more, however very few calves are sold for showing. Cattle are for producing food and feeding people. I am keep the best quality and looking calves that I produce and can buy. I determine their beef quality by ultrasound testing at one year of age. I feed the calves to average less than .25 inches of back fat, so they do not have inflated marbling scores.

Currently you are fine producing feeders for pounds and not worrying about quality. Buyers at sale barns have a good ideal which calves are likely to produce better quality and they make a calculated bid price for them. If you have a buyer that knows your cattle grade above average , he will pay extra.

very good points

 

[Farmerjon]

I only have 7-10 cows, sell 10-15 freezer beeves a year. I ask the butcher at the processor where I take my calves to evaluate them. He gives me his opinion on marbling, fat cover, carcass quality, etc.. His opinion counts of course, but the top indicator is my customers and their impressions of the taste of their meat. So far so good so not making big changes.

 

[Gale Seddon]

Farmerjon, are you selling halves, quarters? The numbers are off somehow. :?

 

[Farmerjon]

Depends on twins and the customer list has outpaced the cow's production numbers so have to purchase some Jersey.
We sell whole, half, quarters, Jersey/Shorthorn cross cows on Limi bulls, for our new customers or small families/elderly customers the full jerseys. The numbers are the numbers of calves not orders, I wondered if anyone would read the response and wonder how the numbers can be skewed!

 

[bigbull338]

you boys are hung up on this breed or cross grades better than another breed or cross of cattle an thats wrong.there are a few things that affect how cattle grade on the rail.1.is their genetics.2.is their temperment.a wild hammerhead calf will be a dark cutter.so the meat will look bad,an not grade very high.3.is the way they are handled in the feedlot.4.is the feed mix that they are fed.you have several breeds an composits of cattle in the feedlot.so to get good gains that means you really need to feed more than 1 blanket TMR.as that dont also work.5.is the days on feed.all weights an breeds of cattle will not finish in the same feeding window.you may have cattle that 900lbs going on feed.lets say they gain 3lbs a day,so thats 60 to days on feed insted of feeding 120 days on feed or more.this way is alot of work because you have set finish weights.so that means you have to weigh pens of cattle weekly to pull the fuinished cattle out an ship them.i doubt alot of feedlots operate in this way though.

 

[vclavin]

I am a seedstock producer that focuses on carcass quality.

Some of the things other producers say against breeders striving for quality are:

1) Pounds pay , carcass quality does not bring them extra dollars.
My reply) They are right unless you have a market to sell quality beef. Sale barns are not the place to sell added value quality.

2) Maternial qualities are more important.
My reply) Maternial quality are highly important, however I believe that you can have both.

3) Cattle must have looks and show well to attract buyers.
My reply) Looks are nice and if you are selling show calves it pays more, however very few calves are sold for showing. Cattle are for producing food and feeding people. I am keep the best quality and looking calves that I produce and can buy. I determine their beef quality by ultrasound testing at one year of age. I feed the calves to average less than .25 inches of back fat, so they do not have inflated marbling scores.

Currently you are fine producing feeders for pounds and not worrying about quality. Buyers at sale barns have a good ideal which calves are likely to produce better quality and they make a calculated bid price for them. If you have a buyer that knows your cattle grade above average , he will pay extra.

Same here, except we feed to grow with high fiber feed instead of high energy feed and breed for low backfat with high marbling.
Valerie

 

[Mid South Guy]

...they may look good but are good beef ?
some people say i get paid by the pound so i'm not breeding for carcass quality but for pounds and dollars in my pocket.
at what point does the packer say no more ?

I think the packer is at that point, but does not have the ability to control it. I believe you've hit on the problem by saying, "they may look good but are good beef?". It is the inability of the buyers and producers to accurately predict what the carcass quality of a 7 mo old calf will be a year or more later. We have come a long way in the industry in improving this, but there is still no way to accurately predict carcass quality at that age with any reasonable degree of certainty. When that certainty becomes avalible, what you are saying about pricing may become a reality.

 

[dun]

...they may look good but are good beef ?
some people say i get paid by the pound so i'm not breeding for carcass quality but for pounds and dollars in my pocket.
at what point does the packer say no more ?

I think the packer is at that point, but does not have the ability to control it. I believe you've hit on the problem by saying, "they may look good but are good beef?". It is the inability of the buyers and producers to accurately predict what the carcass quality of a 7 mo old calf will be a year or more later. We have come a long way in the industry in improving this, but there is still no way to accurately predict carcass quality at that age with any reasonable degree of certainty. When that certainty becomes avalible, what you are saying about pricing may become a reality.

The reasonable degree of certainty comes from the producers reputation and and his aniamls track record on the rail

 

[cross_7]

...they may look good but are good beef ?
some people say i get paid by the pound so i'm not breeding for carcass quality but for pounds and dollars in my pocket.
at what point does the packer say no more ?

I think the packer is at that point, but does not have the ability to control it. I believe you've hit on the problem by saying, "they may look good but are good beef?". It is the inability of the buyers and producers to accurately predict what the carcass quality of a 7 mo old calf will be a year or more later. We have come a long way in the industry in improving this, but there is still no way to accurately predict carcass quality at that age with any reasonable degree of certainty. When that certainty becomes avalible, what you are saying about pricing may become a reality.

The reasonable degree of certainty comes from the producers reputation and and his aniamls track record on the rail

i see that often on superior sales and our local sale in hollis ok
the auctioneer will announce these are so and so calves that have been weaned 60 days and two rounds of shots.
these guys with a proven track record always top the sale.
lots of special feeder sales designed just for these types of producers and do really well also.
i think we are going to see some changes

 

[Amo]

I think its been here a while. Everything will sell. If you have good ones, the previous owner will try his dangdest to get them. You have to ballance carcas with everything else also though.

 

[HomePlaceAngus]

The bottom line is that the American Angus Association has done a GREAT job of promoting Angus beef for 40-50 years now and it shows all the way from the stockyard to the end user in the kitchen. Never walked into a restaurant and saw a sign that said we use herford beef or any other breed other then Angus. Just a GREAT marketing job on AAA's part.

 

[Caustic Burno]

The bottom line is that the American Angus Association has done a GREAT job of promoting Angus beef for 40-50 years now and it shows all the way from the stockyard to the end user in the kitchen. Never walked into a restaurant and saw a sign that said we use herford beef or any other breed other then Angus. Just a GREAT marketing job on AAA's part.

It was the greatest con pulled on the American people better than the one Bernie Madoff pulled off.The AAA targeted the entire population Bernie only got a few. What a joke, talk about duping the American public if you sat down three steaks one from a longhorn, Angus, or a water buffalo 99% couldn't tell the difference.
And yes I have an Angus bull standing in the pasture. It was marketing genisus you can sell everything from a Holstien to a Musk Ox under Certified Angus Beef as long as it is 51% black.