thinking out loud

[cross_7]

The bottom line is that the American Angus Association has done a GREAT job of promoting Angus beef for 40-50 years now and it shows all the way from the stockyard to the end user in the kitchen. Never walked into a restaurant and saw a sign that said we use herford beef or any other breed other then Angus. Just a GREAT marketing job on AAA's part.

It was the greatest con pulled on the American people better than the one Bernie Madoff pulled off.The AAA targeted the entire population Bernie only got a few. What a joke, talk about duping the American public if you sat down three steaks one from a longhorn, Angus, or a water buffalo 99% couldn't tell the difference.
And yes I have an Angus bull standing in the pasture. It was marketing genisus you can sell everything from a Holstien to a Musk Ox under Certified Angus Beef as long as it is 51% black.

as long as it grades choice or prime ;-)

 

[HomePlaceAngus]

I agree Custic Burno, that was my point. They did a heck of a job marketing. Got to take my hat off to them.

 

[Commercialfarmer]

I was able to get inside the inner circles of a couple big feedlot operations that fed out their own cattle several years back. I know at that time they weren't keen on the idea of following other industries, where there was passage of harvest data back to the producer.

I think the purchase buyers know a lot more than you think they know. If you look at who gets information back, it is who owns the cattle at the point of slaughter. I truly believe there is more compiled information out there than you think.

Here is how I see it. If you don't retain ownership, you will never know what you have. If you know that your cattle will perform/grade well, then you will be able to ask more for them. If you didn't take a chance on testing your own herd, why should you be able to profit from this? The guy taking the chance should be the one to gleam the profit from the risk.

Our cattle have sold at the top of our market for the past several years, and the auctioneer tends to talk them up. We don't know him personally, nor any of the purchase buyers. I think they must be making someone a profit. But, I don't want to lose my arse feeding them to find out. So we take what we get. We focus on efficiency and maximizing lbs. We're blessed in hitting the high end of the market.

If you have a different business model, where your costs are going up to improve your genetics- you have to have a way of recapturing that. If you don't have a way of recapturing your costs, your making someone else money. And that's not a good business model.

 

[mlazyj]

I think the waters are getting muddied by who thinks who is getting a premium , for source age verification and grade . Whoever the owner is when they go to the packer is . The cow calf man is the one getting shorted . Were the cow calf man makes some headway is raising a consistant calf crop that the buyers are calling for before the video sales are starting . Our calves have gone to the same feeder for the last 7 years . You have close to 50% export ,which consumers are we educating ?

I maybe wrong but I think the Angus club has Stewart Anderson to thank for the start of certified Angus . I have seen a couple of grocery chains in the NW that marketed certified Hereford .

With the cost of feed ,feedlots have to be selective what they send to the packers . Just because a pen has been on feed for x number of days doesn't mean the whole pen is ready and I will guarentee they will sort before they ship , they want every premium they can get.

The Angus club has take majority black cattle , because if they blood test for straight angus they would breed themselves into a hole faster then they are .You cann't have efficent production if you're going to mono breed everything , that's just freshman ag stuff.

 

[Amo]

I was at a steak house in Kansas City (chain type but not a national chain) and they advertised Certified Hereford Beef

 

[cross_7]

I was at a steak house in Kansas City (chain type but not a national chain) and they advertised Certified Hereford Beef

thats my point.
certified whatever breed will work when the the beef has to meet a certain quality criteria
the buyer may not know the difference between a hereford and angus or the difference between prime and select, but if the beef is certified whatever they know it has to be quality.
which goes back to the beef producer.

 

[pdfangus]

instead of looking back at how it has been done......
the beef industry needs to begin looking forward to how it will be done in the future.

Agriculture is famous for being the slowest industry in America to adopt to change and new technology. change in agriculture is not measured in years. It is measured in generations....

Progressive cattlemen would be looking at where you market your production.
Progressive cattlemen would be figuring out what your market wants.
Progressive cattlemen would be adopting changes to produce for your market or you better be looking for another market.
Here we still moan over being cheated at the stock yard. (new thread this week)
Only one mention of scan technology in this thread by a producer.
scan technology is old technology today and most of you still don't do it.
I will guarantee you that premium markets are gathering DNA information on what meets their premium product specs. then they are figuing out where that came from.
Producers who can do that consistently will have the market come to them.
In the short term anyway.
the danger is that packers will gain control of the genetics that they want and the rest of us will be standing in the rain wondering what happened and why our stock is only worth 25 cents per pound.

In that event yall arguing about breeds will be arguing about history.....the market animal may be a genetic composite or even a clone.

Many are opting to go to all natural and organic and direct marketing. this will be okay as long as you can find a processor. My fear is that when the big packers decide it is time to control the beef industry those small local packers will be squeezed out as well. Big business and Big government love to protect the people ya know. health concerns and sanitation and such.

They took over the hog industry a few years ago and in our country now it is hard to find a hog that is not owned by Murphy Brown. Small direct to consumer farms biggest problem is finding hogs. maybe some entreprenuers will step up and fill the gap but environmental regulations are a burden and a barrier. If you are big enough to be profitable and cover expenses you are big enough to hit the regulatory thresholds.

Me....I hate the mess and fighting mean as he77 400 lb sows and boar hogs.

But I digress....
the dairy industry is so far ahead of the beef breeders in genetics that it is unbelievable.
Even beef genetics is changing at a pace that I can no longer keep up with.....and I have tried...

the world is on pace to run out of mineable phosphorous in the next 20 to 40 years and most of it today is in countries not ours. Speculation on how long before we click off 8 billion souls was rampant a few weeks ago. then nine and ten. demand for nutrients is going to go up....as will prices.

there will always be cows and cowboys cause cows can do things that we can not. they can live on land that we would starve on. Question is who is gonna own those cows and cowboys.

We might not have to climb out of the box we are in....
but it might be wise to peer over the side once in a while and see if the box is sitting on a railroad track.

No trying to be negative....I have loved farming and livestock my entire life....
nothing I enjoy in my doterage more than climbing on my old horse and riding all day....
I love the way thing were and work to keep em that way....
but change is coming wether we like it or not....
they way to survive the changes is to be prepared for them.....

 

[pdfangus]

I GUESS THE OLD THREAD KILLER STRIKES AGAIN.

I THOUGHT MY LAST POST WOULD UNLEASH A FIRESTORM OF PROTEST.

 

[VanC]

I GUESS THE OLD THREAD KILLER STRIKES AGAIN.

I THOUGHT MY LAST POST WOULD UNLEASH A FIRESTORM OF PROTEST.

For what it's worth, I thought it was an outstanding post.

 

[Amo]

No, your just smarter than the rest of us! :tiphat:

Your exactly right...we need to be looking ahead. Seen a quote on here I think that said the worst thing you can do is do everything like grandpa did. The second worst is to forget why grandpa did it the way he did it.

I agree that the niche market thing is kinda risky. Ive seen organic farmers some sourvive, a lot don't. Its good on paper, but thats about it IMHO. Ive been kinda following the grass fed thing a bit. Is there more packer interest in that line of product than say organic/natural? Im all for thinking out side of the box, but when push comes to shove we have to produce what the packer/consumer wants to buy. Be it quality or marketing.

The phosphurs statment is interesting. Guess Im 34...so in 40 years I should either be broke or retired in Aruba. :lol:

 

[inbredredneck]

I am a seedstock producer that focuses on carcass quality.

Some of the things other producers say against breeders striving for quality are:

1) Pounds pay , carcass quality does not bring them extra dollars.
My reply) They are right unless you have a market to sell quality beef. Sale barns are not the place to sell added value quality.

When the choice select spread is $.02 nobody cares about quality when it is $.20 it is all about quality.

3) Cattle must have looks and show well to attract buyers.
My reply) Looks are nice and if you are selling show calves it pays more, however very few calves are sold for showing. Cattle are for producing food and feeding people. I am keep the best quality and looking calves that I produce and can buy. I determine their beef quality by ultrasound testing at one year of age. I feed the calves to average less than .25 inches of back fat, so they do not have inflated marbling scores.

Currently you are fine producing feeders for pounds and not worrying about quality. Buyers at sale barns have a good ideal which calves are likely to produce better quality and they make a calculated bid price for them. If you have a buyer that knows your cattle grade above average , he will pay extra.

When I hear people say man my calves were just as good as so and so's cattle and I got $.25 less, that salebarn screwed me. Or those order buyer's screwed me, they didn't they just knew the other guys were good yours they knew nothing about(or maybe they did know about them). Slaughter sellers get grid sheets we know if cattle were or were not good, we remember names, bad and good.

 

[robert]

Same here, except we feed to grow with high fiber feed instead of high energy feed and breed for low backfat with high marbling.
Valerie

if you were truly breeding for lower backfat you would feed a high energy diet and select those that scanned low bf with high marbling.

 

[robert]

most people have cows that fit their environment and bulls that put on the most pounds with no regards to the quality of beef.

I tend to think that most people have cows and meet their needs with feed, supplemental in many cases beyond what the environment truly supports.

some people say i get paid by the pound so i'm not breeding for carcass quality but for pounds and dollars in my pocket.
at what point does the packer say no more ?

when there is oversupply.

 

[vclavin]

Same here, except we feed to grow with high fiber feed instead of high energy feed and breed for low backfat with high marbling.
Valerie

if you were truly breeding for lower backfat you would feed a high energy diet and select those that scanned low bf with high marbling.

Not true! Our herd bulls were raised on high fiber diet and scanned the following
15815021
on 4-4-08 yearling
wt-1006
mb - 5.75
re- 12.7
rib fat - .36
ru fat - .37

11-7-08 after breeding (spring breeding 6-1 to 8-1)
wt-1598
mb-5.55
re-17.1
rib fat - .36
ru fat - .36

bull 15816020
4-4-08 yearling
wt-1080
mb - 7.84 (ratio 132 like dam)
re - 11.4
rib fat - .20
ru fat - .27

11-7-08 after breeding (spring breeding 6-1 to
wt-1574
mb-8.01
re- 14.3
rib fat - .27
ru fat - .30

These are actual not adjusted.

The second bulls 1/2 sister was more impressive with increased marbling.

Valerie

 

[robert]

not picking, just saying, if you don't raise the bulls on a high energy diet (as their progeny will be) how do you really know? Actuals mean nothing, adjusted (with number of contemporaries) and ratios tell the story, esp. if you look at fat / rump fat.

 

[vclavin]

Thanks Robert, I understand your point of view.... just happen to disagree. THose animals have the dna to back the results.. granted.. the lower marbling score bull has the highest dna for marbling, he may need the high energy to increase the score.
You are right about the actuals meaning nothing... just my point. The ratios. plus dna help with choosong the right animals. We have bought high energy fed bulls and "what a mess". Dropped weight like a time bomb, we knew nothing about digestive bacteria. I will not do that to a customer.
Valerie
PS, the first bulls calves marble quite well according to scans even though his score is low and ratio was 98.

 

[TexasBred]

Same here, except we feed to grow with high fiber feed instead of high energy feed and breed for low backfat with high marbling.
Valerie

if you were truly breeding for lower backfat you would feed a high energy diet and select those that scanned low bf with high marbling.

At what point would you say a feed ceases to be high energy and becomes moderate energy feed and how do you measure energy. What does your roughage do to the overall diet?

 

[ANAZAZI]

How do you figure the marbling in bulls anyway? The more masculine the bull is, the less marbling,even with "good marbling genes", while castrated animals and heifers marble according to their genetics. Basically the risk is evident that the best bulls are deemed unworthy, even if their full sisters marble well.

 

[vclavin]

How do you figure the marbling in bulls anyway? The more masculine the bull is, the less marbling,even with "good marbling genes", while castrated animals and heifers marble according to their genetics. Basically the risk is evident that the best bulls are deemed unworthy, even if their full sisters marble well.

So you think testosterone interferes with marbling? Ultrasound tech told me that would happen when I had the 2 herd bulls retested at fall scanning (about 18 months or so old) 1 bull did drop marbling but the other increased. One heifer went prime from fescue pasture and NO grain... dropped backfat as well, we were shocked.
Valerie

 

[ANAZAZI]

How do you figure the marbling in bulls anyway? The more masculine the bull is, the less marbling,even with "good marbling genes", while castrated animals and heifers marble according to their genetics. Basically the risk is evident that the best bulls are deemed unworthy, even if their full sisters marble well.

So you think testosterone interferes with marbling? Ultrasound tech told me that would happen when I had the 2 herd bulls retested at fall scanning (about 18 months or so old) 1 bull did drop marbling but the other increased.
Valerie

This would be common knowledge I thought. A good reason for progeny testing, to avoid hatchet-assed, feminine bulls with good numbers.