thinking out loud

[vclavin]

How do you figure the marbling in bulls anyway? The more masculine the bull is, the less marbling,even with "good marbling genes", while castrated animals and heifers marble according to their genetics. Basically the risk is evident that the best bulls are deemed unworthy, even if their full sisters marble well.

So you think testosterone interferes with marbling? Ultrasound tech told me that would happen when I had the 2 herd bulls retested at fall scanning (about 18 months or so old) 1 bull did drop marbling but the other increased.
Valerie

This would be common knowledge I thought. A good reason for progeny testing, to avoid hatchet-assed, feminine bulls with good numbers.

What makes you think these bulls are "hatchet-assed & feminine"
http://www.cattletoday.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=67804 Calves out of one of those bulls I was talking about.
Valerie

 

[ANAZAZI]

This would be common knowledge I thought. A good reason for progeny testing, to avoid hatchet-assed, feminine bulls with good numbers.

What makes you think these bulls are "hatchet-assed & feminine"
http://www.cattletoday.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=67804 Calves out of one of those bulls I was talking about.
Valerie

I am saying that selection for marbling measured in bulls and bulls only may result in non masculine bulls. I think measuring marbling should work better on heifers and steers to avoid messing the results up (by mistake) discriminating against high testosterone. :2cents:

As to the pictures of the fat young heifers in the link, they are not supposed to be masculine anyway.

 

[vclavin]

This would be common knowledge I thought. A good reason for progeny testing, to avoid hatchet-assed, feminine bulls with good numbers.

What makes you think these bulls are "hatchet-assed & feminine"
http://www.cattletoday.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=67804 Calves out of one of those bulls I was talking about.
Valerie

I am saying that selection for marbling measured in bulls and bulls only may result in non masculine bulls. I think measuring marbling should work better on heifers and steers to avoid messing the results up (by mistake) discriminating against high testosterone. :2cents:

As to the pictures of the fat young heifers in the link, they are not supposed to be masculine anyway.

Anazazi.... hmmm, those are just weaned bulls and heifers at a few days after weaning.

If I'm understanding you correctly, you believe that marbling and high testerone levels counter each other?

I have been under the understanding that Marbling, backfat, and muscling are put on the animal in a certain order and since they are not affected by each other... you can select for one without sacrificing the others. Only marbling and rib eye affect each other negatively - when one increases the other decreases - but according to the geneticist, there is always an exception to the rule and those are the ones we look for.

Valerie