The "GOLDEN EGG" - Feed Efficiency??

[ROB]

bull tests from various locations feed different rations, and quantities of feed in order to achieve an ADG of say 3.5 lbs/day. in that respect, there are very few bulls that will achieve 6 lbs/day gain. they are not feeding the bulls to get 'em fat - they're trying to maintain good condition and build muscle while a scaled down feed test is ongoing. IMO 6 lbs/day gain or some other magic number does not make the best suited bull for my needs. how much frame does that bull have? what amount of feed did it take to put on a pound of gain? (actual not average), whats his ADG, REA, IMF, & scrotal? this information combined with BW, WW, YW and milk will allow a more definite selection of various bulls to choose from that will suit my preference or needs. doesn't matter what breed - each breed will have standout bulls. if i want to improve a purebred herd it will allow it, if i want to add heterosis - i can select from another breed. either way, the bottom line is you will improve your herd. and if you save back replacements - those mothers will be more efficient saving you dollars in the long run.

ROB

 

[EAT BEEF]

• >>>I can't think of one good reason why a comm. operation would not want to take advantage of hybrid vigor?<<<

A bunch of folks just outcross so much with in the same breed they don't know what they have(bulls that don't breed true) and take advantage of a lower form of hybrid vigor.

I'll agree with that.. but the second part is a head scracther. what do you mean by bulls that dont breed true?

My guess is the EAT Beef is referring to the lack of consistent genetics from the bulls do to lack of purity in some of the breeds. You don't get hybrid vigor and genetic consistency from breeds that have added other breeds to the their cattle ultimately making them crossbreeds.

Yes but also alot of popular angus breeders do the same thing wether chasing the next greatest thing or just trying to get more growth.I think if seedstock producers would breed cattle a little tighter the comm guy could take advantage of more of the hydrid vigor.The problem with this is most folks aways wan't to buy the biggest bull.

 

[ALACOWMAN]

thats true, get a bigger bang of heterosis

 

[Jovid]

My guess is the EAT Beef is referring to the lack of consistent genetics from the bulls do to lack of purity in some of the breeds. You don't get hybrid vigor and genetic consistency from breeds that have added other breeds to the their cattle ultimately making them crossbreeds.[/quote]

Yes but also alot of popular angus breeders do the same thing wether chasing the next greatest thing or just trying to get more growth.I think if seedstock producers would breed cattle a little tighter the comm guy could take advantage of more of the hydrid vigor.The problem with this is most folks aways wan't to buy the biggest bull.[/quote]

That is exactly what we do with our Red Polls

 

[novatech]

Would somebody try and explain how 6 lbs. per day weight gain has anything to do with efficiency?

 

[MikeC]

Would somebody try and explain how 6 lbs. per day weight gain has anything to do with efficiency?

A calf that gains 6 pounds per day HAS to be somewhat efficient. His gut will only hold so much feed and his ability to process enough feed to gain that much weight is abnormally biologically efficient.

 

[TexasBred]

Would somebody try and explain how 6 lbs. per day weight gain has anything to do with efficiency?

Well it all depends.....did he do it on a prickly pear diet or 40 lbs. of $15.00 a hundred-weight feed.

 

[backhoeboogie]

Would somebody try and explain how 6 lbs. per day weight gain has anything to do with efficiency?

Well it all depends.....did he do it on a prickly pear diet or 40 lbs. of $15.00 a hundred-weight feed.

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

 

[novatech]

Would somebody try and explain how 6 lbs. per day weight gain has anything to do with efficiency?

A calf that gains 6 pounds per day HAS to be somewhat efficient. His gut will only hold so much feed and his ability to process enough feed to gain that much weight is abnormally biologically efficient.

If you have anything that will support your statement I am very willing to listen.
A big gut also means more intake, it does not mean better conversion.
TexBred's statement actually makes more sense when it comes to efficiency.

 

[ALACOWMAN]

if moma can survive and maintain condition on prickly pear's.... does it mean her calf can convert feed better on the lot.....keep in mind not arguing just asking ..........

 

[TexasBred]

if moma can survive and maintain condition on prickly pear's.... does it mean her calf can convert feed better on the lot.....keep in mind not arguing just asking ..........

Who knows...probably would take him a few days to figure out what the stuff was. (feed). ;-)

 

[backhoeboogie]

if moma can survive and maintain condition on prickly pear's.... does it mean her calf can convert feed better on the lot.....keep in mind not arguing just asking ..........

Since you asked For me, in this climate, it is all about momma. If she has ear, she can forage good grass and produce a lot of milk and a heavy calf. If she doesn't have ear, she is going to hang out in the shade all day long and pant. Calf will be 200 to 300 pounds lighter come August. It is best for me to have my non-eared cows calve in the fall and forage on winter grasses. Some summers we have 80 plus days of triple digit. That is hard on cold climate breeds.

 

[novatech]

I would think that there are two completely different types of efficiency. One being a cow calf pasture operation where maintenance and calf raising efficiency is important. The other being the efficiency in a feed lot operation where feed conversion is more directly involved and less importance is placed on maintenance.
The big trick is having efficiency in both. Cows that are cheap to maintain yet have the genetics for feed efficient calves. Of course one must pick out the proper terminal bull to go along with this scenario.
To more directly answer your question, the fact that a cow can be maintained on cactus would not indicate that her calf would be an efficient gainer in a feedlot. ( I'm thinking Longhorn as an example )

 

[backhoeboogie]

Nova you hit the nail on the head with the terminal bull. If you have good cows, the calves will get plenty of milk. A good bull will produce some nice market steers. But then you take a hit on the heifers and you don't want to retain them either.

It is a double edge sword. Eared heifers bring a lot of nickels at the local sale barns. They fetch premium prices. Eared steers don't.

 

[Busterz]

Would somebody try and explain how 6 lbs. per day weight gain has anything to do with efficiency?

A calf that gains 6 pounds per day HAS to be somewhat efficient. His gut will only hold so much feed and his ability to process enough feed to gain that much weight is abnormally biologically efficient.

If you have anything that will support your statement I am very willing to listen.
A big gut also means more intake, it does not mean better conversion.
TexBred's statement actually makes more sense when it comes to efficiency.

In a recent Braunvieh bull test where they did an RFI test (a test for feed efficiency) the bull with the highest average daily gain (I think it was around 7) also had the worst RFI score. He must have really been a pig at the feed bunk.

I think Texas bred's statement about eating cactus v. eating bought feed is a statement about economic efficiency not necessarily feed efficiency. The economic efficiency will vary depending on the price of the input at the time its fed. Feed efficiency would imply reflect how well an animal can convert a particular feed to pounds. Some animals will be efficient grass converters, some will be more efficient feed converters. But I would guess if they good grass converters would usually be pretty good feed converters.

As to something like Longhorns, I don't think they are usuallu very feed efficient, they won't convert the feed to pounds very well, but they do have lower maintenance requirements which makes them economically efficient.

Thats just my intial thought anyway.

 

[TexasBred]

Buster....you're right on about the feed. Type feed would have a lot to do with it. Feed lot ration -vs- least cost creep pellet etc. IF you have to supplement your cattle I personally prefer to spend the money on a quality feed rather than a cheap least cost ration. Most of us cow/calf operators could care less about feed lot rations but I can certainly understand those that utilize this part of the system. As Boogie said, down here in Texas you just gotta have some Brahman influence to get a cow capable of hustling for whatever is available as well as utilizing things like range cubes or range meal to the upmost. She'll maintain her body score, give good milk, raise a good calf to a good weaning size and breed back. Now what those calves do when someone else buys them and ships them to the feedlot is the question still not answered and not capable of being answered with any real accuracy. I do know those pointed ears always bring a premium and if they're black there's another premium.

 

[ALACOWMAN]

personally hereford has a big roll in efficientcy in the majority of rangeland conditions thoughout the US and the most overlooked breed... we all can put together a animal that can grow like a weed on feed . but making it ediable

 

[ROB]

I would think that there are two completely different types of efficiency. One being a cow calf pasture operation where maintenance and calf raising efficiency is important. The other being the efficiency in a feed lot operation where feed conversion is more directly involved and less importance is placed on maintenance.

could you explain how are you seeing this as two types of efficiency? in each case an animal is converting feed - either as grass or as a feed ration - into pounds.

ROB

 

[ROB]

the following article was copied from the posted website:

IMO this guy is right on target. if you use RFI only for selection of replacements you will mess up your herd, it should be used in conjunction with the other determining factors that a producer needs.

ROB

http://www.quakerhillfarm.com/feedeffeciency.html

Feed Efficiency: A Big Buzz in the Beef Industry Today

By Jennifer Showalter, The Mid-Atlantic Farm Chronicle

Louisa, VA – Beef cattle producers are continuously looking for ways to cut their costs of production, and feed costs are typically a considerable proportion of the entire range of expenses involved with running a beef cattle operation. By genetically selecting animals that perform better on less amounts of feed, producers can breed for cattle that actually require less feed to maintain a desired body condition or to reach an ideal market weight.

Charles A. Rosson, of Quaker Hill Farm in Louisa, VA, just recently took the next step in advancing the family's purebred Angus operation. The Rossons are well-known in the Angus business across the country and try to keep their program updated to meet the demands of their markets. With the increase in an attention on feed efficiency, the Rossons recently decided to install an American Calan System in one of their barns. This system allows them to test the residual feed intake (RFI) efficiency or in other words the actual feed intake minus the expected feed intake of individual animals.

According to Rosson, "RFI is more than feed efficiency; in a nutshell it is the efficiency of the animal on a biological and metabolic level and how they deviate from the animal's expected performance and feed conversion rate. Research shows if you select for feed efficiency alone that you will increase mature body weight and frame size. However if you use the RFI component for your selection tool you can select for a highly efficient animal without increasing mature body weight. We want to produce moderate framed, easy fleshing, thick cattle that work well on fescue." Quaker Hill Farm is one of two private farms in the country that has incorporated this system into their operation.

There are currently two pens of 12 bulls on test at Quaker Hill Farm. Each bull has a computerized chip around his neck that matches up with a sensor on one specific feeding door. This allows the animal to unlock the feed door for his feeding space only. The American Calan System provides the Rossons with a way to accurately measure how much grain and hay each bull eats during the trial period. The bulls are currently eating around 250 pounds of grain a week and about 1 pound of hay each day. The grain consists of cotton seed hulls, soy hulls, barley, oats, rolled corn, and protein pellets. Feed intake data is collected daily and recorded once a week during the 70 day trial period. The bulls are given two weeks before the test starts to learn where their feeding stall is and to adapt to the environment. The bulls are weighed every two weeks, so that a growth curve can be plotted. At the end of the trial, the bulls will be ultrasounded for carcass data. Charles remarked, "From this we calculate Average Daily Gain, Feed Efficiency, and RFI. We can also monitor eating patterns and feeding behaviors on the bulls. One added benefit is the bulls are extremely tame and docile because of the constant handling and hand feeding."

The Rossons plan to run another group of 24 heifers through the system after these bulls finish up. The 24 bulls that are currently on test will be sold on December 15, 2007, at Quaker Hill Farm along with an additional 25 yearling and coming 2-year-old Angus bulls. There will be three coming two-year-old Polled Hereford bulls and 7 Black SimAngus and Gelbievh bulls sold. The RFI for the bulls that are on test will be available for buyers to help make decisions that will benefit their herd and the beef industry as a whole.

"I think customers will have a new choice to consider when purchasing bulls. We are also going to offer a bull leasing/rental program on the bulls if a farmer would rather just have the bull for a 60 to 90 breeding season. We also plan to have financing available to make every bull affordable. We want everyone to have access to cutting edge genetics in a plan that fits their farm budget," said Rosson. He then added, "We hope to improve the beef industry in Virginia by providing proven, documented feed efficiency tested cattle that have the EPDs and genetics the industry demands."

The Rossons plan to test four groups of cattle, or 96 head, each year and increase the number of tests they perform on the cattle to help better guide them in their breeding decisions.

"I strongly believe feed efficiency is a vitally important economic trait. It is important in the feedlot by lowering feed expenses. However, those same genes selected for feed conversion also effect the conversion and metabolic efficiency of your cow herd. Having cows that can maintain themselves on less hay in the winter and less pasture during the grazing season will allow more cow/calf units per acre. Supplemental feeding is one of the largest costs a cow/calf operator faces. If we can reduce feed costs by increasing metabolic efficiency every segment of the beef industry wins. Cattle that have a better feed efficiency and desirable RFI (residual feed intake) are more friendly toward the environment, as they produce 9 to 15% less methane gas and 10-12% less manure," said Rosson.

According to Rosson, it is not economical for every producer to install an American Calan System, but feed efficiency is something every seedstock producer needs to consider. The beef industry continues to make improvements, but must strive to offset all the variety of pressures that it faces.

 

[MikeC]

Would somebody try and explain how 6 lbs. per day weight gain has anything to do with efficiency?

A calf that gains 6 pounds per day HAS to be somewhat efficient. His gut will only hold so much feed and his ability to process enough feed to gain that much weight is abnormally biologically efficient.

If you have anything that will support your statement I am very willing to listen.
A big gut also means more intake, it does not mean better conversion.

Gordon Carstens, Texas A&M University animal scientist, agrees. "Because FCR is highly correlated with postweaning ADG, yearling weight and mature cow size, it isn't very valuable as a selection tool, but residual feed intake (RFI) is more promising."