The everthing breed

[skcatlman]

Right now every breed seems to be chasing the complete breed being able to do everything well. In all reality every breed has stengths and weaknesses. I find it amazing how some angus breeders are chasing the terminal market when they are good female producers, one particular angus breeders bull sale catalogue i saw bulls with high 60's to low 70's lb birth weights and weaning weights from 900 to 1000 lbs and yealing weights of 1500 to 1600 lbs. And they are supposed to be angus but chars , sims and limos have trouble being that high performing. And now i am also seeing char breeders pushing being cow makers. These breeders are promoting cattle that have traits that are unrealistic. In all reality there are a few breeds that are middle of the road and balanced. But seeing terminal breeds pushing the crossbred female using their breed makes me laugh. IMHO you have to focus on your strengths. No breed is the best at everything. For the Angus guys i am not trying to bash you ,but your breed excels at females don't try to out yeild limos you are going to lose. For Simms the majority of your bulls are not across the board calving ease bulls leave that to red angus and tarentaise. I am not picking on one breed as crossbreeding is the basis of a sucessful commercial program. The most sucessful commercial programs i know of have desinged cross breeding programs. I am sure i will see responses on how a certain breed can do evey thing. Try to prove it you won't be sucessful.

 

[S.R.R.]

Right now every breed seems to be chasing the complete breed being able to do everything well. In all reality every breed has stengths and weaknesses. I find it amazing how some angus breeders are chasing the terminal market when they are good female producers, one particular angus breeders bull sale catalogue i saw bulls with high 60's to low 70's lb birth weights and weaning weights from 900 to 1000 lbs and yealing weights of 1500 to 1600 lbs. And they are supposed to be angus but chars , sims and limos have trouble being that high performing. And now i am also seeing char breeders pushing being cow makers. These breeders are promoting cattle that have traits that are unrealistic. In all reality there are a few breeds that are middle of the road and balanced. But seeing terminal breeds pushing the crossbred female using their breed makes me laugh. IMHO you have to focus on your strengths. No breed is the best at everything. For the Angus guys i am not trying to bash you ,but your breed excels at females don't try to out yeild limos you are going to lose. For Simms the majority of your bulls are not across the board calving ease bulls leave that to red angus and tarentaise. I am not picking on one breed as crossbreeding is the basis of a sucessful commercial program. The most sucessful commercial programs i know of have desinged cross breeding programs. I am sure i will see responses on how a certain breed can do evey thing. Try to prove it you won't be sucessful.

You have obviously have not heard of the ABBA we are the answer to your questions. You will find that our cattle not only meat ;-) but exceed your expectations!!

 

[andybob]

I agree Skcatlman, that is why my breeding program is focused on producing dam line characteristics, with average build, the muscle and growth rate can be added in the crosses, the easy care F1 females pay for themselves by being the producers of weaned calves, the terminal sire adds the profit to the calves.

 

[skcatlman]

SRR what is the ABBA ? Explain

 

[aggieband 83]

ABBA = American Brahman Breeders Association

 

[skcatlman]

You do realize my outfit is in canada.Brahman don't work up here for me. They are built for heat dissapation not heat conservation. Sorry but try again.

 

[ollie?]

Right now every breed seems to be chasing the complete breed being able to do everything well. In all reality every breed has stengths and weaknesses. I find it amazing how some angus breeders are chasing the terminal market when they are good female producers, one particular angus breeders bull sale catalogue i saw bulls with high 60's to low 70's lb birth weights and weaning weights from 900 to 1000 lbs and yealing weights of 1500 to 1600 lbs. And they are supposed to be angus but chars , sims and limos have trouble being that high performing. And now i am also seeing char breeders pushing being cow makers. These breeders are promoting cattle that have traits that are unrealistic. In all reality there are a few breeds that are middle of the road and balanced. But seeing terminal breeds pushing the crossbred female using their breed makes me laugh. IMHO you have to focus on your strengths. No breed is the best at everything. For the Angus guys i am not trying to bash you ,but your breed excels at females don't try to out yeild limos you are going to lose. For Simms the majority of your bulls are not across the board calving ease bulls leave that to red angus and tarentaise. I am not picking on one breed as crossbreeding is the basis of a sucessful commercial program. The most sucessful commercial programs i know of have desinged cross breeding programs. I am sure i will see responses on how a certain breed can do evey thing. Try to prove it you won't be sucessful.

I disagree. I agree with your observations that there are Angus terminal sires better than most Charolais and that there are Charolais cows that are better than most angus. I don't see any particular problem. Do you actually think that you can buy a bull of breed X and get predictable results anyway without doing your home work? I can see a set of low yielding Chars with beautiful udders and pretty heads with loads of volume and wish they were in my pasture . I can do the reverse for Angus and admire that heavy boned, big muscled ox that can add pounds. I can also find plenty of animals in either breed that are balanced and can keep a man in business. Breed a consistant cow in your operation and someone can find a way to use her. The trouble comes when some goof ball buys an angus bull and "thinks" that he's getting a calving ease maternal sire without knowing anything other than his Interim epd's. The same thing goes for Chars. I have a neighbor down the road cussing Chars. He bought some drags from the sale barn and put them in a real nice of angus and said "those Charolaise ain't all they're cracked up to be. My angus outgained them by X ppd." He knows better but he didn't do better. Cows are cows no matter what color you paint them. Good ones are good ones and sorry ones are sorry ones.

 

[IL Rancher]

I believe the ABBA he is reffering to is the American Black Baldy Association ;-) :lol: :lol:

 

[Northern Rancher]

We raise some rodeo cattle as far north in saskatchewan as there are cows-they winter out with a 200 or so British cross cows and don't fare all that badly. Straight Brahma cattle might suffer but those 1/4 blood or half bloods take winter just fine-my outfit doesn't provide alot of warm blankets or breakfast in bed either. I still think the old standby black baldy cow is pretty hard to beat you can breed her to a one eyed billy goat and still get a saleable calf. we finish all our calves and sell them on a carcass grid and do all right by it.

 

[skcatlman]

Northern rancher i have fed out high perecntage brahman cattle they just don't gain as well as other breeds in winter in canada. In feeding out the brahman crosses have you learned how good they are in our climate,they are built for heat not cold and if you breed enough northern blood in they will do ok.
Ollie angus are not meant to be terminal the bulls i spoke of are either two things freaks or crossbreds. I am sorry i was born on a day but it was not yesterday, 66lb BW and a 1600+ YW both are actuals. LOL While i agree cows are cow some are bred for terminal traits and others for maternal and that has to be realized. I really want you to see how staight angus does in the feedlot compared to a good crossbred steer.

 

[vs_cattle]

With Some Time And Good Genetics Charolais Can Feet Your Any Need You Just Have To Search For Them. Like Any Breed There Are Good And Bad Cattle. Charolais Are No Different, But If You Need Some Heifers You Can Find Them With Just As Good Udders As The Next Breed And Those Other Maternal Traits Your Looking For, If You Want A Calving Ease Bull Charolais Have Those To There Are Bull Out There That Calved In The 60s-70lbs Range, So It Depends What You Want Like Your Saying Cattle That Are Balanced We Got Those To With A Little Performance & Maternal Just Got To Research Them

 

[S.R.R.]

I believe the ABBA he is reffering to is the American Black Baldy Association ;-) :lol: :lol:

:nod: :nod:


skcatlman you wanted to know what the everything breed was and BBs come as close as you can get. If it was not for the foresight of a number of our members this breed may never have become a reality.

Here is a link that will give you more information and were to send your membership fees! ;-)

http://cattletoday.com/forum/viewtopic. ... light=abba

 

[Aero]

Right now every breed seems to be chasing the complete breed being able to do everything well. In all reality every breed has stengths and weaknesses. I find it amazing how some angus breeders are chasing the terminal market when they are good female producers, one particular angus breeders bull sale catalogue i saw bulls with high 60's to low 70's lb birth weights and weaning weights from 900 to 1000 lbs and yealing weights of 1500 to 1600 lbs. And they are supposed to be angus but chars , sims and limos have trouble being that high performing. And now i am also seeing char breeders pushing being cow makers. These breeders are promoting cattle that have traits that are unrealistic. In all reality there are a few breeds that are middle of the road and balanced. But seeing terminal breeds pushing the crossbred female using their breed makes me laugh. IMHO you have to focus on your strengths. No breed is the best at everything. For the Angus guys i am not trying to bash you ,but your breed excels at females don't try to out yeild limos you are going to lose. For Simms the majority of your bulls are not across the board calving ease bulls leave that to red angus and tarentaise. I am not picking on one breed as crossbreeding is the basis of a sucessful commercial program. The most sucessful commercial programs i know of have desinged cross breeding programs. I am sure i will see responses on how a certain breed can do evey thing. Try to prove it you won't be sucessful.

you are exactly right.

have breeds do what they do best and then cross specific breeds that complement each other.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

I guess I agree and disagree. Certain breeds (on average) definately excell in certain traits and should "cash in" on those accepted traits.
But, WITHIN breeds, there are cattle that will fit most programs. Through the use of EPD's, cattlemen have "changed" traits in their herds to be as complete as any breed.
As an example (must stick up for my breed ), the American Simmental is now as easy calving as Herefords and within 1% of the Angus breed - according to MARC research, the GURU of beef research. Our breed was PERCEIVED to be a hard calver, and we stressed EPD selection to correct that. I just reprinted an article in my newsletter about the Genetic Trend of Simmentals over the past 25 years. Very interesting. We changed traits that were antaganistic to each other.
Incresed Direct Calving Ease AND increased Maternal Calving Ease. Lowered milk production, and increased weaning weights.
Now, I'm not saying that all Simmental are the "everything" breed - but thru selection, we're getting closer

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

I must add. When I say that our breed was PERCEIVED to be hard calvers - I am not denying that there were bulls out there in the 70's that killed cows. But, that happened with all the large breeds coming into the US. People took 2800# bulls and AI bred them the ole Sally (weighing a whopping 900#) so they could TRY the new breed.
I think MOST continental breeds started off as hard calving with American bred cattle, but it's what the breed has become that counts now.
And it's not the "black gene" that has made our breed better. If that was the case, our Yield Grade would not have improved! Our breed is what it is today thru selection & EPD use.
The same can be said for many of the breeds, I can only speak for my breed.

 

[Northern Rancher]

I never said BrahmaX cattle were the thing to have up here-I'm just saying they winter o.k. Feedlot characteristics have nothing to do with selection in a rodeo program. They are intriguing cattle to handle-most people are intimidated by buckers but they are actually not bad to work with if you know what your doing.

 

[skcatlman]

SRR - Blacky baldy are a crossbreed not a breed of their own. What makes them great angus or hereford ?
JVS - I wasn't picking on Simms but they are better terminal sires than heifer bulls. would you breed a bunch of tarentaise X hereford and breed them to zima or a full fleck SA bull?
I am not trying to say one breed is best just that evey breed should focus on what makes them great.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

Maybe Simms are terminal sires in Canada, but the breed is much more popular as a MATERNAL breed here in US. And they are a breed being used in commercial heifer programs. If the bull has a +10 CE, they are recommended for all british breed heifers.
This is off your subject, sorry. Just can't help myself defending the breed.
I understand what you are saying about one breed being the "everything" breed. But, I still say that WITHIN some breeds, there are HERDS that fit the bill. (there are just MORE herds within my breed than most - I know - I'm bad!)

Of the british breeds, Angus is ranked FIRST in CE WW Carcass Wt, #'s of retail product, Shear Force & Maternal WW. And first & second in feed efficiency traits. So that looks like a maternal breed AND a carcass breed to me.

 

[mtnman]

I have no trouble handling EXT's.

Some think they are too hard to handle or crazy.

I think they are amateurs that don't know cattle.

mtnman

 

[Northern Rancher]

Well I calved about 100 Ext two year olds a couple years back and when you get a bad one you've really got something. When they are wilder and harder to handle than rodeo cattle you definately have a disposition problem. EXT had some admirable traits-a gentle disposition wasn't one of them. There's enough anecdotal evidance to support this from all over cattle country-they all can't be 'amateurs' lol.