The EPA and some good news for US.

[Commercialfarmer]

https://www.usda.gov/wps/portal/usda/mi ... budsum.pdf

Page 2, I believe is the graphed breakdown

 

[Margonme]

I don't want subsidies in ag, so you could kill it all and I'd be fine with it.

But, how much of the ag budget is actually the welfare budget labelled as ag?

I don't know the portion and it certainly would be dependent on how you define agricultural welfare.

71% of the entire budget is Nutrional Assistance. I would label that welfare. Not agricultural welfare, but welfare.

Being that 71% of the budget is welfare, it would be more acurately called the food welfare budget..

So exactly what does comparing the EPA's budget have to do with the food welfare budget?

Nothing.
No relationship.

 

[Anonymous]

https://www.downsizinggovernment.org/ag ... e/timeline I found this link very interesting. Nothing to do with EPA but gives a timeline of Dept of Ag. over the years. EPA and Dept of Ag suck from the same tit. Both along with most Federal agencies, were never intended to exist by our Founders. Arguing against one bloated Federal agency and favoring another is like slapping some ones left hand and shaking their right hand.

 

[Caustic Burno]

https://www.downsizinggovernment.org/agriculture/timeline I found this link very interesting. Nothing to do with EPA but gives a timeline of Dept of Ag. over the years. EPA and Dept of Ag suck from the same tit. Both along with most Federal agencies, were never intended to exist by our Founders. Arguing against one bloated Federal agency and favoring another is like slapping some ones left hand and shaking their right hand.

It just makes better news to say the leaches in Washington passed the farm bill. Subsidies or welfare are the same thing taking money from a working American to give to everything from illegals to more leaches

 

[Commercialfarmer]

https://www.downsizinggovernment.org/agriculture/timeline I found this link very interesting. Nothing to do with EPA but gives a timeline of Dept of Ag. over the years. EPA and Dept of Ag suck from the same tit. Both along with most Federal agencies, were never intended to exist by our Founders. Arguing against one bloated Federal agency and favoring another is like slapping some ones left hand and shaking their right hand.

:nod:

 

[sim.-ang.king]

https://www.downsizinggovernment.org/agriculture/timeline I found this link very interesting. Nothing to do with EPA but gives a timeline of Dept of Ag. over the years. EPA and Dept of Ag suck from the same tit. Both along with most Federal agencies, were never intended to exist by our Founders. Arguing against one bloated Federal agency and favoring another is like slapping some ones left hand and shaking their right hand.

It just makes better news to say the leaches in Washington passed the farm bill. Subsidies or welfare are the same thing taking money from a working American to give to everything from illegals to more leaches

Someone once said that a farm bill would never pass if it didn't have all the welfare latched on.

 

[angus9259]

Millions depend on the Department of Agricultural to eat.

Funny, I thought the millions depended on farmers. What does the Dept of Ag produce? Like all the world, we are in favor of bureaucracy when the bureaucracy is in favor of us. In fact, we are in favor of anything when it's in favor of us.

 

[True Grit Farms]

Millions depend on the Department of Agricultural to eat.

Funny, I thought the millions depended on farmers. What does the Dept of Ag produce? Like all the world, we are in favor of bureaucracy when the bureaucracy is in favor of us. In fact, we are in favor of anything when it's in favor of us.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supplem ... ce_Program
I'm not in favor of any government handouts, especially the one's that provide assistance to those who won't work. But like it or not the USDA provides food for millions.

 

[Margonme]

https://www.downsizinggovernment.org/agriculture/timeline I found this link very interesting. Nothing to do with EPA but gives a timeline of Dept of Ag. over the years. EPA and Dept of Ag suck from the same tit. Both along with most Federal agencies, were never intended to exist by our Founders. Arguing against one bloated Federal agency and favoring another is like slapping some ones left hand and shaking their right hand.

Zirlottkim:
That is the most revealing chronology of an agency I have read and I have read several. Everyone on this forum interested in agriculture show read it closely. It is a great example of how government programs no matter how well intended in the beginning drift away from their purpose.

I especially liked this paragraph:

1985: Despite the Reagan administration's proposals to cut farm subsidies, the poor shape of farm finances during the 1980s prompts Congress to pass the expensive Food Security Act of 1985. This law added new farm subsidy programs, including the Export Enhancement Program and the Conservation Reserve Program, which pays farmers not to farm.

Regardless of Republican or Democrat administration, they cannot avoid the quagmire.

 

[Ky cowboy]

For those of you who think the epa should be eliminated, I live in and work in a rural/industrial area. If there was no epa I know first hand what these factories would do b/c I've seen them do it, and seen the same people who I told you can't let that **** run into that Creek that runs straight to the ohio river. I've seen the epa come in and fine them $100'sk. And this is bad stuff in these factories, most of you probably don't have experience with these settings or fully undèstand the damage they could do to everything down wind and down stream. I do believe the epa has gotten to big for example wotus. But they are a nesscary evil, unfortunately.

 

[Commercialfarmer]

For those of you who think the epa should be eliminated, I live in and work in a rural/industrial area. If there was no epa I know first hand what these factories would do b/c I've seen them do it, and seen the same people who I told you can't let that be nice run into that Creek that runs straight to the ohio river. I've seen the epa come in and fine them $100'sk. And this is bad stuff in these factories, most of you probably don't have experience with these settings or fully undèstand the damage they could do to everything down wind and down stream. I do believe the epa has gotten to big for example wotus. But they are a nesscary evil, unfortunately.

You are very wrong. No epa does not mean no environmental protection. States are more than capable of protecting their own environments.

 

[Margonme]

For those of you who think the epa should be eliminated, I live in and work in a rural/industrial area. If there was no epa I know first hand what these factories would do b/c I've seen them do it, and seen the same people who I told you can't let that be nice run into that Creek that runs straight to the ohio river. I've seen the epa come in and fine them $100'sk. And this is bad stuff in these factories, most of you probably don't have experience with these settings or fully undèstand the damage they could do to everything down wind and down stream. I do believe the epa has gotten to big for example wotus. But they are a nesscary evil, unfortunately.

You are very wrong. No epa does not mean no environmental protection. States are more than capable of protecting their own environments.

Some states, yes. In fact, California is over-capable. Kentucky has a horrid history of regulatory protection.

Ky Cowboy: Kentucky is a fully delegated or at least a partially delegated state. That means the agents in the field are state employees. Kentucky's environmental offices are authorized by EPA to enforce the Public Laws that Congress passed and directed EPA to implement. Kentucky applies for annual grants and cooperative agreements under which they are awarded funding to carry out EPA's obligations pursuant to the various Public Laws.

 

[Commercialfarmer]

https://www.downsizinggovernment.org/agriculture/timeline I found this link very interesting. Nothing to do with EPA but gives a timeline of Dept of Ag. over the years. EPA and Dept of Ag suck from the same tit. Both along with most Federal agencies, were never intended to exist by our Founders. Arguing against one bloated Federal agency and favoring another is like slapping some ones left hand and shaking their right hand.

Zirlottkim:
That is the most revealing chronology of an agency I have read and I have read several. Everyone on this forum interested in agriculture show read it closely. It is a great example of how government programs no matter how well intended in the beginning drift away from their purpose.

I especially liked this paragraph:

1985: Despite the Reagan administration's proposals to cut farm subsidies, the poor shape of farm finances during the 1980s prompts Congress to pass the expensive Food Security Act of 1985. This law added new farm subsidy programs, including the Export Enhancement Program and the Conservation Reserve Program, which pays farmers not to farm.

Regardless of Republican or Democrat administration, they cannot avoid the quagmire.

Not true, they can avoid the quagmire when all bodies of the system have the same purpose. What is wrong is when something has to be given to get something "more important" in deals made in our government.

I always thought that Congress passed the bills?

Introduced in the House as H.R. 2100 by Kika de la Garza (D–TX) on April 17, 1985

Do you have an idea as to why the American farmer was hurting at that time?

But more importantly, the farm bill response was wrong. New Zealand had similar difficulties around the same time and applied a different answer with better results in the long run. An answer we need to apply today.

http://dailysignal.com/2016/09/22/what- ... r-farmers/

 

[No Rest Farm]

Most of the roles of the EPA could easily be taken over by the states. Here in Virginia most of the regs are enforced by DEQ but when you question anything they say sorry that's federal law we just enforce it. It give a level of protection where no one can really question anything.
We have gotten so crazy here that if you disturb an acre of land you need a storm water permit with an engineer telling them the impact. Heck if I put in a new driveway legally half the cost would be in permits and fees. It's all in the name of protecting the Chesapeake Bay but all of the water on this side of the state flows to the Mississippi River. But sorry, it's a federal regulation we just enforce it. No questions please

 

[Margonme]

Most of the roles of the EPA could easily be taken over by the states. Here in Virginia most of the regs are enforced by DEQ but when you question anything they say sorry that's federal law we just enforce it. It give a level of protection where no one can really question anything.
We have gotten so crazy here that if you disturb an acre of land you need a storm water permit with an engineer telling them the impact. Heck if I put in a new driveway legally half the cost would be in permits and fees. It's all in the name of protecting the Chesapeake Bay but all of the water on this side of the state flows to the Mississippi River. But sorry, it's a federal regulation we just enforce it. No questions please

Correct! They pass the buck. That is a serious drawback to delegated programs.

On the other hand, I spent most of my career in enforcement of non-delegated programs. I confess when asked why the law requires this or that, I often replied "sorry, that is the way Congress wrote the law, take your issue up with your congressman." That is a nasty reality.

 

[Margonme]

Keep in mind: The field enforcement agent enforces the law that they are authorized to implement. To ensure equitable enforcement, the authorized agent is held to a standard of strict adherence to the letter of the law. The only means to ameliorate the requirements or standards being implemented is for the regulated party to file for relief or adjudication.

 

[No Rest Farm]

Or just do what you want to and don't tell anyone :cowboy:

 

[Margonme]

Or just do what you want to and don't tell anyone :cowboy:

Don't tell anyone. Keep it secret!



You would not believe how many times I have seen people call the office and rat their employers out!!!

BTW: Agencies are required by law to maintain confidentiality on citizen complaints.

 

[angus9259]

For those of you who think the epa should be eliminated, I live in and work in a rural/industrial area. If there was no epa I know first hand what these factories would do b/c I've seen them do it, and seen the same people who I told you can't let that be nice run into that Creek that runs straight to the ohio river. I've seen the epa come in and fine them $100'sk. And this is bad stuff in these factories, most of you probably don't have experience with these settings or fully undèstand the damage they could do to everything down wind and down stream. I do believe the epa has gotten to big for example wotus. But they are a nesscary evil, unfortunately.

You are very wrong. No epa does not mean no environmental protection. States are more than capable of protecting their own environments.

KY Cowboy is right. I work in heavy industry. States may be capable of protecting their environment, but that doesn't mean they will when faced with the economic power of heavy industry. Politicians in states are driven by jobs - especially heavy industry jobs. They don't give two shyts about your farm or the fact you can't make food with polluted water and ground.

 

[Margonme]

For those of you who think the epa should be eliminated, I live in and work in a rural/industrial area. If there was no epa I know first hand what these factories would do b/c I've seen them do it, and seen the same people who I told you can't let that be nice run into that Creek that runs straight to the ohio river. I've seen the epa come in and fine them $100'sk. And this is bad stuff in these factories, most of you probably don't have experience with these settings or fully undèstand the damage they could do to everything down wind and down stream. I do believe the epa has gotten to big for example wotus. But they are a nesscary evil, unfortunately.

You are very wrong. No epa does not mean no environmental protection. States are more than capable of protecting their own environments.

KY Cowboy is right. I work in heavy industry. States may be capable of protecting their environment, but that doesn't mean they will when faced with the economic power of heavy industry. Politicians in states are driven by jobs - especially heavy industry jobs. They don't give two shyts about your farm or the fact you can't make food with polluted water and ground.

Exactly how it works. Doesn't matter whether its environmental law or hunting and fishing law. State governments have a very poor track record of protecting anything but the "good ole boy" concept of "you pay me and I'll look the other way".

My first job out of college was working in the Regional Spoil and Water Laboratory in Hazard, KY. My main purpose was sampling water and highwalls (overburden) on permit proposals for strip mining coal. I had just completed a mine assessment which indicated a proposed mine permit was in a high acid formation. I recommended denial of the permit application. I received a call in the lab. The applicant was disguised and frustrated with the outcome. I explained the state requirements and that it was not a judgement or arbitrary finding. He ended the call by saying that the laboratory report meant nothing because he said "I can buy any politician in Frankfort".