The disapointment of showing cattle

[kjonesel]

My 15 and 14 year old learned a lot this past week about the world of cattle showing. Some of their experiences ranged from being lumped into a class called all other breeds to having a judge fail to even know what breed they were. Overall it was an excellent chance to realize what is truly important about the cattle business and learn that the most important thing is breed promotion and staying in business.

 

[3waycross]

My 15 and 14 year old learned a lot this past week about the world of cattle showing. Some of their experiences ranged from being lumped into a class called all other breeds to having a judge fail to even know what breed they were. Overall it was an excellent chance to realize what is truly important about the cattle business and learn that the most important thing is breed promotion and staying in business.

Great observations.

 

[highgrit]

From what I have seen, its not what you know but who you know.

 

[Keren]

I agree. What breed do you show, if you don't mind me asking?

 

[MShaffer]

Was it at Harrison County?

How did the auction go? One of our Thursday hay helpers sold a steer Wednesday night and I thought the price he received was low. But, I did not attend the auction or see any of the animals this year.

 

[kjonesel]

We show Gelbvieh, Which I feel is a great breed for Southern Indiana. The one's that the kid's show are Fullbloods which could provide a source of genetics in the future for crosses. We have some brood cows which are a cross from a purebred Gelbvieh and a registered polled herefords from the Sherman farm and they are extremely gentle and excellent mothers. On the auction at the fair it was disappointing. I didn't attend but the Grand Champion was a beautiful shorthorn and it only brought $1,900.00 and to prove that it's who you know other steers brought $2,500.00 to $3,600.00. Overall I have noticed that the county fairs in general have had diminished numbers over the past several decades. I myself am not a fulltime farmer but am trying to familiarize my children with cattle.

 

[KNERSIE]

Have you got pics of the show calves?

 

[VCC]

It is always tough when the judge is not familiar with your breed or is a steer judge judging breeding heifers or a heifer judge, judging steer, some can do both others seem to not be able to make the switch. Allot of fairs will put you in the AOB if there are not sufficient numbers of the breed to compete in a breed class of their own. This is where you can get lost if your cattle are at the top for their breed characteristics but get lost in the mix of other breeds. It would be real hard to have divisions for each breed if there were only 2 or 3 head from that breed.

Our fairs numbers were up by 15 head this year, which is a surprise since calves cost more and feed cost more, the lowest steer sold for 1.80 a pound champion sold for 12.00 a lb, the average was 2.25 a lb, down about .75 from last year.

We have always had buyers for our animals; you can not go to the auction and expect to make money if you do not have buyers lined up. My kids send out 20 to 40 letters to buyers even though most their animals have been bought by the same buyers for the past 10 years. A family that has supported kids at the auction for over 40 years, they bought my animals when I was a kid and now they buy my kids animals. (They bought 9 hogs donated 7 to the Scholarship fund, 1 veal, 5 sheep donated 5 to the Scholarship fund, 4 Steers donated 2 to the scholarship fund.)

We have bought an animal every year from kids some times we know them and some times we do not, several times we did not plan on buying an animal but, my wife has a big heart and if no one was bidding on it she would, some time against herself just so they made some money. It burns me when people whose kids raise animals complain about buyers when they do not buy animals, now I know some that can't afford to but the ones who can should support the program and not just take from it.

As far as numbers dropping, if the kids lose money every year and the projects cost more every year, it does not take long to figure out you might just need to get a job if you want to make money. Most kids spend an hour to 2 hours a day with their project some more, if they make a $500 profit they are making 2.77 an hour (500 / 180) at an hour a day on their project.

Most kids in our area do not have other livestock they either keep it at the school farm or build a pen at home for their project. They do not buy bulk so they depend on feed stores.

Average cost:

Steer cost (600 * 1.50) $900 most kids pay more
Sack feed (180 days) $800 (No mills in the area)
Grass Hay ($15 ea. 1 a week) 300 (Feed store hay)
$2200 big investment for a kid if they do not have buyers

 

[kjonesel]

My children didn't go the segregated show animal route. I have them believing that we will show our cattle the same as they would be if the fairgoer were to visit the farm. As a child my siblings and I did that with dairy cattle and anyone who knew our farm knew that the cattle at the show were the same as the cattle left at home in the barn. I am teaching them that people aren't as stupid as others would like them to be.

 

[hillsdown]

It has been tough this year for kids to show, they just cannot get sponsors anymore with the economy. Granted things have picked up for most companies compared to 2 years ago ,but they are not willing to sponsor a 4H group anymore for the kind of money they need to break even and maybe a little left for the college fund.

I too would love to see pics of your GV and GV cross cattle if you get a chance. Sounds like you are instilling some great qualities in your children and I hope that they continue to enjoy handling cattle.

 

[mmiv]

It has been tough this year for kids to show, they just cannot get sponsors anymore with the economy. Granted things have picked up for most companies compared to 2 years ago ,but they are not willing to sponsor a 4H group anymore for the kind of money they need to break even and maybe a little left for the college fund.

True we used to be able to get sponsors for anything even if we didn't try to promote the company (go figure :roll: ) and now they just look at you like your crazy if you ask. *small rant warning*Also it seems sportsmanship is going down hill just as fast as the economy. I mean come on go ahead spend big bucks on your animal but don't go fooling around with another exhibitor's project that isn't in the same league that's just pitiful *end of rant*

 

[knabe]

the judges know what the breeds are. they may lump them together if there aren't enough to make a class.

if a different judge lumps yours again into the same class, choose a different breed if you are worried about it.

otherwise, just keep improving and don't worry about it. showing is just a means to an end, selling cattle.

you don't sell them to the judge, you sell them to producers.

i like fullblood gelbvieh's. one of the few breeds with over a century of performance records.

one fullblood problem is profiling against show genetics of show breeds or genetics. judges don't really seem to take the time to sort out a class that doesn't stair step easily. you rarely hear them say, nice individual for the breed and if it's less something than something of another breed they are looking for, they will dump it rather than compare it against it's breed. so sad.

 

[3waycross]

the judges know what the breeds are. they may lump them together if there aren't enough to make a class.

if a different judge lumps yours again into the same class, choose a different breed if you are worried about it.

otherwise, just keep improving and don't worry about it. showing is just a means to an end, selling cattle.

you don't sell them to the judge, you sell them to producers.

i like fullblood gelbvieh's. one of the few breeds with over a century of performance records.

one fullblood problem is profiling against show genetics of show breeds or genetics. judges don't really seem to take the time to sort out a class that doesn't stair step easily. you rarely hear them say, nice individual for the breed and if it's less something than something of another breed they are looking for, they will dump it rather than compare it against it's breed. so sad.

:clap: :clap: :clap: :tiphat:

 

[BCShorthorn]

In Brown County the livestock clubs and others go around and ask for people that would like to support the kids at the sale but could not buy an animal on their own to go into a "buyers pool". The "Pool" money is then used to buy more than 1 animal. The pool is usually quite large so that can help more than 1 kid. And, WOW, on the grand champ going for less than others. Around here, I don't think I've ever seen that happen. Even in surrounding counties the GC has went for the most money. Sometime its been close but I can't remember it being less. We are lucky here (Brown Co.), that we have community support. Some buyers even come from other counties. Jackson Co. REMC serves some of the southern part of the county and there are customers that have kids that show, so they come to support 4-H here.

 

[kjonesel]

I found out after the original post that My sister's children in Jackson Co. didn't even show cattle there this year because it became a parent's show. That's when it becomes sad.

 

[sim.-ang.king]

I don't think you should stop showing somewhere because of reasons like that, unless of money problems or it to far to drive anyways. I've had plunty of times when i know who is going to win, but yet I still show the best I can cause I know that they aren't going to have their friends judging every show. Like at are county my sister was showing a steer I raised. At the 4-H show he got 4th over all. The Jr. show he got 4th again. Then some strange reason he ended up get what he did at other fairs and won over-all. No surprize to me that he didn't win at the other 2 because of who was judging, but you know I still show there and still win, sometimes, even when I know what the line up will be.
Showing is a disapointment when people quit just because of the politics.
Remeber they may have the judge on their side 9 times out of 10, but there still is that 1 time that really counts.

 

[Chi496]

Did you all ever think the reason you have not place well in the past is because there were better cattle at the show than what you had. Oh wait a minute that can't be the case the judge was paid off, someone cheated, had a better fitter. Get use to it this is life and not everyone wins like in t-ball. Your Freddy 4-H mentality will get you no where in the livestock industry, put the work in at home in feeding, breeding and the rest of the aspects of managing a successful operation and you won't be on the internet belly aching over being a looser.

 

[kjonesel]

From your post it was hard to get a direction as to what you were trying allude to. What we encountered was the lumping of cattle in a class called All Other Breeds, then not acknowledging the difference between breeds and their properties. There will always be a need for specific breeds and a good example for doing so would be the example of AM that is now present in the Angus breed. There have been times when breeders have to resort to the base line genetics to bring forth specific traits in crosses. All I was trying to say was that they were breed specific and a knowledgable beef judge would be prepared to know all breeds before he sells himself as a judge of beef cattle. In the case of our show we only had a beef judge.

 

[3waycross]

From your post it was hard to get a direction as to what you were trying allude to. What we encountered was the lumping of cattle in a class called All Other Breeds, then not acknowledging the difference between breeds and their properties. There will always be a need for specific breeds and a good example for doing so would be the example of AM that is now present in the Angus breed. There have been times when breeders have to resort to the base line genetics to bring forth specific traits in crosses. All I was trying to say was that they were breed specific and a knowledgable beef judge would be prepared to know all breeds before he sells himself as a judge of beef cattle. In the case of our show we only had a beef judge.

You are wasting your time. He's a Show Jock and could care less what your issues are. Save your breath!

He is right about one thing tho. You can't bring a knife to a gunfight and not expect to get your ass kicked.

 

[VCC]

After reading your original post again, I just have to wonder, who was more disappointed, you, or the kids?

If you do not mind me asking, how many other Gelbvieh cattle were there to show against? Do you have pictures?
Even if a judge knows your breed, some times they will lean toward cattle that type more like the breed they are familiar with or raise. Your calves may be top end Gelbvieh but if the other calves had traits he liked more, you will slip down in the class.

If their not deep ribbed, big hipped, clean necked, with some thickness it will be hard to compete, I don't care what breed you bring. As Knabe stated keep working on improving your herd and have fun (it is supposed to be fun).

We towed calves around for 8 years, won our class several times, had a few calves in the drive for their division with one reserve, but more often than not they set in the upper end of the class but did not win. These calves were purchased for our county fair, and we had a couple champions and reserves over the years.
What we did do is make allot of friends, spent quality time together as a family, and the boys learned about work and reward, the harder they worked the better they did. We would do it over again the same way.

After reading your original post again, I just have to wonder, who was more disappointed, you, or the kids?