The Consumer wants "TENDER"

[cypressfarms]

Dun,

I agree with you on all parts. I really don't like brahman cattle (I guess I'm about to start a real mess here), but most farms around here have brahman influenced cattle. There are some farms that are straights (angus, etc.), but not many and I've never really asked any of them if they suffer summer loss like I've seen. I would much rather have non-brahman influenced cattle, but until something else comes along that will perform better (a Tuli maybe?), I sometimes feel that there isn't a choice.

 

[DOC HARRIS]

Frankie - I've sent an email to Mr. Kent and will share his response.

Lilley - that could very well be right... many people do not cook nowadays, in fact I read somewhere over the weekend that 5 meals per week were take out/fast food. When I was a kid growing up we were lucky if we ate out5 times a year.

"Eating OUT" 5-6-7 times per week is the reason that there is a very serious condition of excessive adiposity in the American lifestyle! OVEREATING! Fast Food and Junk Food Dispensaries are anathema to good health and salubrious dining!

For this VERY reason I encourage the various Beef Breed Associations to UNITE in a combined effort to present to the uninformed and uneducated eating public the truth and facts concerning BEEF - how and why it is desirable and how and why to prepare it - and tell that story over and over and over and over - ad infinitum! "United we Win - Divided we Fall!" That would cost $$$$. But what doesn't?? But I haven't observed any of the Associations picking up the Advertising ball in regard to ALL beef producers pulling together and running with it! They are too busy - COMPETING with each other!

DOC HARRIS

 

[MikeC]

Frankie - I've sent an email to Mr. Kent and will share his response.

Lilley - that could very well be right... many people do not cook nowadays, in fact I read somewhere over the weekend that 5 meals per week were take out/fast food. When I was a kid growing up we were lucky if we ate out5 times a year.

"Eating OUT" 5-6-7 times per week is the reason that there is a very serious condition of excessive adiposity in the American lifestyle! OVEREATING! Fast Food and Junk Food Dispensaries are anathema to good health and salubrious dining!

For this VERY reason I encourage the various Beef Breed Associations to UNITE in a combined effort to present to the uninformed and uneducated eating public the truth and facts concerning BEEF - how and why it is desirable and how and why to prepare it - and tell that story over and over and over and over - ad infinitum! "United we Win - Divided we Fall!" That would cost $$$$. But what doesn't?? But I haven't observed any of the Associations picking up the Advertising ball in regard to ALL beef producers pulling together and running with it! They are too busy - COMPETING with each other!

DOC HARRIS

Doc, I thought the check-off was supposed to do what you have proposed? I'm paying $1.50 per head to do just that!

 

[dun]

Dun,

I agree with you on all parts. I really don't like brahman cattle (I guess I'm about to start a real mess here), but most farms around here have brahman influenced cattle. There are some farms that are straights (angus, etc.), but not many and I've never really asked any of them if they suffer summer loss like I've seen. I would much rather have non-brahman influenced cattle, but until something else comes along that will perform better (a Tuli maybe?), I sometimes feel that there isn't a choice.

I happen to like Brahman cattle, but they don;t perform well in this environemnt. If we ever move south (doubtfull) I had thought maybe Senepol would help with heat.

dun

 

[DOC HARRIS]

Hey Dun,

Now would be the time for a joke about the stupidity of cows.

But, I've seen too many times when pure angus and herefords lost weight in the really hot months around here, when the braham influenced either kept their own or gained weight.

One could argue that if the angus just sat during the hot part of the day and ruminated, while eating at night, they wouldn't lose any weight; and I've seen the charts that show when the average cow eats and chews cud, but if the bottom line is in the weight. And 99+ degree heat with 90% humidity just ain't too friendly to a straight angus.

I agree that if they don;t maintain their weight or close to it or raise a good calf they have a problem. But too often we hear about how heat tolerant Brahman influenced cattle are when it may be just stupidity, or the smaller digestive track thing. The environemnt is the deciding factor. I see cows around here standing in ponds and people gripe because they're not heat tolerant. They also stand in ponds when it's in the 50's, what does that have to do with heat tolerance. That's just cows that like to stand in ponds.

dun

Another reason (Perhaps THE reason) they stand in ponds is to prevent Heel Flys from laying eggs on the hairs of their heels, and the larva then making their way up to the back of the animal making a comfortable little pocket just under the surface of the hide, piercing a 'breathe' hole in the hide and becoming a "Wolf" or "Warble". Heel Flys drive cattle crazy, and you will see the cows running like a stampede to a water hole or pond with their tails standing straight up in the air and then standing in the pond . I imagine it cools them somewhat, but the Heel Flys are a big reason for their doing this "Water Trick"!

DOC HARRIS

 

[dun]

Another reason (Perhaps THE reason) they stand in ponds is to prevent Heel Flys from laying eggs on the hairs of their heels, and the larva then making their way up to the back of the animal making a comfortable little pocket just under the surface of the hide, piercing a 'breathe' hole in the hide and becoming a "Wolf" or "Warble". Heel Flys drive cattle crazy, and you will see the cows running like a stampede to a water hole or pond with their tails standing straight up in the air and then standing in the pond . I imagine it cools them somewhat, but the Heel Flys are a big reason for their doing this "Water Trick"!

DOC HARRIS

Since heelfly season is only a short period of time, that wouldn;t explain cows that are standing in ponds the rest of the year. In this area the heelfly season is only about 2 weeks.

dun

 

[DOC HARRIS]

Frankie - I've sent an email to Mr. Kent and will share his response.

Lilley - that could very well be right... many people do not cook nowadays, in fact I read somewhere over the weekend that 5 meals per week were take out/fast food. When I was a kid growing up we were lucky if we ate out5 times a year.

"Eating OUT" 5-6-7 times per week is the reason that there is a very serious condition of excessive adiposity in the American lifestyle! OVEREATING! Fast Food and Junk Food Dispensaries are anathema to good health and salubrious dining!

For this VERY reason I encourage the various Beef Breed Associations to UNITE in a combined effort to present to the uninformed and uneducated eating public the truth and facts concerning BEEF - how and why it is desirable and how and why to prepare it - and tell that story over and over and over and over - ad infinitum! "United we Win - Divided we Fall!" That would cost $$$$. But what doesn't?? But I haven't observed any of the Associations picking up the Advertising ball in regard to ALL beef producers pulling together and running with it! They are too busy - COMPETING with each other!

DOC HARRIS

Doc, I thought the check-off was supposed to do what you have proposed? I'm paying $1.50 per head to do just that!

Mike - You are EXACTLY correct! That is what the Check-off is all about! Unfortunately - $1.50 per head, although it is a terrific idea and works as well as it can, is about as effective as urinating in the sea to RAISE the tide! For an informative advertising campaign to be justified, it must be effective and overwhelmingly successful. Producers pay their $1.50 per head and think, "That's it! Everything is hunky-dorry!" and then let someone else do the thinking and planning and worrying, but NOT cooperating and contributing time and ideas! That is the way almost everything turns out in the final analysis! To accomplish the job that is required to be effective in educating the public about BEEF and all of the benefits to be derived therefrom will take a LOT of financing (there are a lot of more financially aware experts than I am to determine ways to do that!) and ideas to really be effective. I think that the "Angus America" group has come as close with their ideas of helping producers and increasing consumer demand for Beef as any other group or any association that I am acquainted with. The one question that I have concerening their work is they are attempting to do a great deal for very little funding! But that is always the problem! :shock: :shock:

Anyone interested go to: http://www.angusamerica.com

and, NO, I do not work for them! It just seems to me that this is a darned good START - and once started correctly - the snowball picks up speed! ;-)

DOC HARRIS

 

[dph]

Quick note on the genetic side. Bovigen has just or is just about set to release a marker for a third tenderness gene. They are actively trying to start a "verified tender" program similar to the hugely successful CAB. I would expect there to be at least two more genes identified relatively soon on each the tenderness and the marbling sides. And they will really be important when the breed associations hop on board and start using gene-based epds. Frankly, I am just a producer, but I don't see what would be keeping them from developing a tenderness EPD.

 

[jersey lilly]

The reason bramhan cattle are more heat tolerant is because they have more sweat glands than other breeds of cattle...here's an article about it.

http://www.ansi.okstate.edu/breeds/cattle/brahman/

second paragraph

 

[Brandonm2]

Dun,

I agree with you on all parts. I really don't like brahman cattle (I guess I'm about to start a real mess here), but most farms around here have brahman influenced cattle. There are some farms that are straights (angus, etc.), but not many and I've never really asked any of them if they suffer summer loss like I've seen. I would much rather have non-brahman influenced cattle, but until something else comes along that will perform better (a Tuli maybe?), I sometimes feel that there isn't a choice.

I happen to like Brahman cattle, but they don;t perform well in this environemnt. If we ever move south (doubtfull) I had thought maybe Senepol would help with heat.

dun

I bought some Senepols when that "heat tolerant bos taurus" hype was on. IF they are more heat tolerant I never noticed it. When my cows were laying out in the shade in the middle of the day the Senepols were laying there with them. I never saw any Senepols busy grazing out in the Alabama heat. They were neither the first cows to lay down or the first cows to cow out of their shade. If it was 102 degrees and 90% humidity they were panting just like the Anguses, Herfs, Baldies, and buckskins. The weaning weights were always decent; but they never quite equaled herd average and the most psychotic calf I have ever raised (and I still have the twisted steel corrall panel to prove it) was out of my best Senepol cow. We have had F1 Brahman cross cows before and I have seen them perform one on one and I don't doubt them at all.....the Senepols on the other hand were good cows; but not everything I had hoped for.

 

[Beefy]

They are more heat tolerant b/c they CAN sweat and b/c the loose skin (more surface area) allows for better heat dissipation. now the heat tolerance may be an adaptation to the smaller digestive track.

Heel flies have little to do with cattle standing in water.

Dun, why senepol?

 

[houstoncutter]

Frankie, have you got some kinda souped up cows that will produce more of those $9 ribeyes than the $2 hamburger . I sure wont some of those gals. As for Mr Clark with ranches in Dodge and Crocket, yes I have dealt with him. I bought some Gelbvieh cattle from him, one of the best set of cows I have ever owned. Their gentics still run deep in my herd. Now for the bad part. the 2 Angus bulls I bought were probably the worst buys I have ever made in buying bulls.
As for tender beef, all beef would be greatly improved if it were aged. Except for the branded programs, most beef is never aged. I guess someone should ask those fellas in the packing industry why that happens

 

[dun]

Dun, why senepol?

If they had the heat tolerance that is/was claimed they wouldn;t take a dock like eared calves would. The breed association was of no real help other then hype and the folks in GA that push them were all hype too. But I figured a couple of known cows bred to a Senepol and I would be able to judge if thre was a real advantage or not.

dun

 

[jersey lilly]

Guess it's all in what area your in, eared cattle dont take a dock here in south east texas.

 

[dun]

Guess it's all in what area your in, eared cattle dont take a dock here in south east texas.

Correct! And around here you can;t give a Hereford away and closer to KS they sell just as well as anything else. It can also be a matter of one salbarn and another depending on the buyers they bring in. At the local barn, eared cattle get docked something awfull, and yet pure Brahman babby calves are usually the high sellers. But I think most of those go to the backyard folks that just want a calf for the kids and they're so darn "cute" with those giant ears.

dun

 

[DOC HARRIS]

They are more heat tolerant b/c they CAN sweat and b/c the loose skin (more surface area) allows for better heat dissipation. now the heat tolerance may be an adaptation to the smaller digestive track.

Heel flies have little to do with cattle standing in water.

Dun, why senepol?

Beefy -
You opinion regarding Heel flies having "little to do with cattle standing in water?" WRONG

DOC HARRIS

 

[dun]

Beefy -
You opinion regarding Heel flies having "little to do with cattle standing in water?" WRONG

DOC HARRIS

That explains a few weeks a year, what about the rest of the year, including last week when the highs were only in the 50-60 range?

dun

 

[DOC HARRIS]

Beefy -
You opinion regarding Heel flies having "little to do with cattle standing in water?" WRONG

DOC HARRIS

That explains a few weeks a year, what about the rest of the year, including last week when the highs were only in the 50-60 range?

dun

Dumb cows! They get in the habit of standing in ponds and then, even when they don't need to because of the absence of Heel Flies - - Habit!

Heck, who knows how a cow thinks? But I can tell you - FOR SURE - in some parts of the country several years ago, Heel Flies were BIG problems to the producers and Leather Brokers because of the ruined hides. But I won't argue with staying cool by dangling my feet in cool water! And I don't have Heel Flies after my bod!

Of course, I've never seen cows ice skating or skinny dipping either!

DOC HARRIS

 

[Beefy]

Cows have always stood in the water heel flies or no heel flies. Hell, what do you expect when its well over 100 degrees? now dont get me wrong, in areas with a lot of heel flies (not here) i know cows stand in the water to escape them. but 95% (atleast) of the time they are standing in the water b/c it feels good.

so i call BS on your "Perhaps THE reason" but not your "another reason"

 

[Beefy]

Dun,
i agree with you on the senepols. in addition they are just flat out ugly to me. i started to work with the man in georgia i think you are talking about when i was in college but i decided not to.