The clones are coming!

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

Triple C has cloned Power Drive (Macho's sire). They had one on display at Denver, and their sale catalog had a pic of three clones (born a few months apart). They obviously LOOKED different - which surprised me. BUT, I never thought about them as being TWINS. But that's right, and twins may HAVE the same genes, but they may be EXPRESSED differently. Like white spots. A geneticist told me that identical twins will have the same number of white hairs, but they may be in different locations. :shock:
Soooo - if you cloned that WINNING steer, the clones may not be nearly as good.
You would THINK that they would sire/produce offsprings equally to their gene donor. Meaning, like Power Drive consistantly sires awesome offspring - since the clones carry the same identical genes, will they pass as many of the good genes to their offspring as Power Drive :?: :idea:

 

[dun]

Split embryo clones. These have to be as close as you can get to the same thing. So why aren't they?

http://abs-bs.absglobal.com/beef/angus. ... o=29AN1463
http://abs-bs.absglobal.com/beef/angus. ... o=29AN1464

 

[*Cowgirl*]

Hair coat PATTERNS are decide by uterine conditions. This is UTKs cloning site. I actually had a very interesting class with Dr. Lannett Edwards, though it was not about the cloning process.
http://animalscience.ag.utk.edu/utcloneproject/millie_news_birth.htm
It has also been noted that clones have many more health problems to their natural counterparts.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

Split embryo clones. These have to be as close as you can get to the same thing. So why aren't they?

http://abs-bs.absglobal.com/beef/angus. ... o=29AN1463
http://abs-bs.absglobal.com/beef/angus. ... o=29AN1464

Yes, that is what I was talking about. So the clones are just like TWINS - they may not look alike at all.
These are different than "full sibs" - sibs may inherit totally different genes - but clones & twins have exact same genes - just jumbled up into different order - and "expressed" in different ways. Soooo - big question again is: will they PRODUCE offspring like the original??? Time will tell.

 

[dun]

Soooo - big question again is: will they PRODUCE offspring like the original??? Time will tell.

If you look at the EPDsyou';; get the notion that they don't produce the same in their offspring

dun

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

I admit I didn't check them out that close. So they have been around long enough to have produced offspring - and they have "obviously" been different from one another. Just like I thought.
Just because they HAVE the same genes, does not mean they express them or pass them on the same.
So, in my mind, that defeats the "purpose" of cloning.

 

[Brandonm2]

We're not talking about natural born calves, but a clone .

Clones are carried in-utero just like any other calf and born just like any other calf they have a twin just like many calves the only difference is their twin is older.

3. Et and AI are coming from a pair, not a cow, that has had her dna cloned to put an exact duplicate of herself on the ground.

Clones have parents to. if you have a clone it has the exact same pedigree as its "twin" imagine that you clone the pedigree as well. If you parentage test a clone to its parents it will pass, indicating that they are its parents.

The problems surrounding clones and any hesitance to accept them stem mostly from ignorance and left wing hippy rhetoric.

It's the Christian right that has a problem with clones, I don't fiush or AI either.

:clap: :clap: I sometimes don't agree with you Caustic but I agree with you 100%.If God didn't make it ,I ain't eating or touching it.

God still made it. ALL we are doing is taking a piece of the cow's ear and extracting the genetic material to make another copy of the cow. We are not actually assembling a DNA strand from scratch and in the cloning process being discussed here we are not altering the DNA. Human cloning is where there are moral problems since there have been some flawed clones. It would be irresponsible to do anything that might increase the likelihood of producing a disabled child. Once the process is perfected where "accidents" happen no more often than with natural matings, the human cloning issue will probably be revisited; though I fail to see where there is a justifiable need.

So it's okay to clone a defenseless animal but not a human, cause that just aint right? :roll:

It is certainly OK to EAT a defenseless animal but not the neighbors.

 

[Brandonm2]

Triple C has cloned Power Drive (Macho's sire). They had one on display at Denver, and their sale catalog had a pic of three clones (born a few months apart). They obviously LOOKED different - which surprised me. BUT, I never thought about them as being TWINS. But that's right, and twins may HAVE the same genes, but they may be EXPRESSED differently. Like white spots. A geneticist told me that identical twins will have the same number of white hairs, but they may be in different locations. :shock:
Soooo - if you cloned that WINNING steer, the clones may not be nearly as good.
You would THINK that they would sire/produce offsprings equally to their gene donor. Meaning, like Power Drive consistantly sires awesome offspring - since the clones carry the same identical genes, will they pass as many of the good genes to their offspring as Power Drive :?: :idea:

Macho would LOOK much different too if I had raised him in Alabama on fescue, sericea, second rate hay and more limited feed rather than raised in NY for the show ring. He might not be recognizable; but his genes would be the same. I think clones are LIKE identical twins. The original cell split may have been an exact copy; but how many millions of times does mitosis occur as the one celled animal becomes a calf and each time this occurs there is the possibility of genes crossing over or mutating. That and a different environment (different recip, ration, weather, management, etc) is also going to lead to subtle differences between the phenotype of the clone from the original.

 

[sackshowcattle]

I go both ways with cloning. I think it will only lessen the gene pool more and no advance the breeds. Look at Maines and shorthorns everyone was using the same bulls and now there are 2 huge genetic defects that are apearing every where because there are the same bulls used over and over from AI and ET. But for the Moral issue. Why is ok for Humans to cut another human open put in an artificial knee or heart or pig stomach or do organ transplants. Thats not gods will. Hearing aids are artificial not gods will. Caterack surgery or lasik surgery are also artificial. For that matter oxygen tanks are artificial. So why is it ok for us humans to use all of these artificial means to stay alive longer and go against gods will. But if we do it to an animal all of a sudden god wouldn't want it.

 

[C HOLLAND]

Thats not gods will. Hearing aids are artificial not gods will. Caterack surgery or lasik surgery are also artificial. For that matter oxygen tanks are artificial. So why is it ok for us humans to use all of these artificial means to stay alive longer and go against gods will. But if we do it to an animal all of a sudden god wouldn't want it.

God does not treat us like puppets with strings attached, and if he didnt want Man to be able to learn how to do transplants and other miracles of modern medicine, he wouldn't give us the knowledge to do these things.

JMO

I have heard that the SS number was the first sign of the mark of the beast (666) and then it was getting paid by check,,,then using credit cards and and debit cards and then your pay going direct deposit. even Elvis was not cool at one time,,,, :lol: :lol:

its called CHANGE, but I am not sure the cloning will ever help,,,,just make things more of the same as they use to be.,,,,,,,,,, OK climbing down off my soap box.

 

[Cattleman200]

God does not treat us like puppets with strings attached, and if he didnt want Man to be able to learn how to do transplants and other miracles of modern medicine, he wouldn't give us the knowledge to do these things

I agree


Circle H Ranch
http://www.chrlimousin.com

 

[Beef11]

I'll assume that you don't know me very well, and further that you do cloning or know somebody who does.

I've been involved to a degree with cloning

Clones won't always look the same through gene expression but their DNA is exact and therefore semen from original or a clone is indistinguishable. I see a place for cloning just not as huge as everyone makes it out to be. Who knows i might do some cloning myself someday.

As for what Dun said about embryo splitting, that is a form of cloning and is widely accepted.


I think the media feeds alot of hype into things like cloning. They pass on their ignorance. They are a bunch of left wing whackos

 

[Alice]

I'll assume that you don't know me very well, and further that you do cloning or know somebody who does.

I've been involved to a degree with cloning

Clones won't always look the same through gene expression but their DNA is exact and therefore semen from original or a clone is indistinguishable. I see a place for cloning just not as huge as everyone makes it out to be. Who knows i might do some cloning myself someday.

As for what Dun said about embryo splitting, that is a form of cloning and is widely accepted.


I think the media feeds alot of hype into things like cloning. They pass on their ignorance. They are a bunch of left wing whackos

I would think it is the far right wingers and the religious right that wants cloning stopped, yet you refer to those who've answered you that they do not support cloning as left wingers.

Where are you getting left wing in all of this? Are you saying the the left wing does not support cloning and the right wing does? :shock:

Alice

 

[Wewild]

God still made it. ALL we are doing is taking a piece of the cow's ear and extracting the genetic material to make another copy of the cow. We are not actually assembling a DNA strand from scratch and in the cloning process being discussed here we are not altering the DNA. Human cloning is where there are moral problems since there have been some flawed clones. It would be irresponsible to do anything that might increase the likelihood of producing a disabled child. Once the process is perfected where "accidents" happen no more often than with natural matings, the human cloning issue will probably be revisited; though I fail to see where there is a justifiable need.

I don't understand your logic. If we could make a human clone 100% succesfully everytime then it would be ok ... morally?

 

[warpaint]

Now, I've gone from being a leftwing hippie to a whacko!!

Just because, I don't agree with you on the cloning thing, doesn't make me a hippie or whacko. It also doesn't mean that I have made my decisions about cloning from some newspaper article. It simply means that I don't agree with you!!

 

[Wewild]

God does not treat us like puppets with strings attached, and if he didnt want Man to be able to learn how to do transplants and other miracles of modern medicine, he wouldn't give us the knowledge to do these things.

JMO

He doesn't put strings on us. If he had we would still be in the Garden of Eden.

An example of our first mistake but not our last.

JMHO

 

[Beef11]

I would think it is the far right wingers and the religious right that wants cloning stopped, yet you refer to those who've answered you that they do not support cloning as left wingers.

Where are you getting left wing in all of this? Are you saying the the left wing does not support cloning and the right wing does?

Alice

Left wing cattleman

The hippies are left wing and they are all after leaving things the way they were. No logging then it burns down? I say look at our resources and manage them the best we can whether it is forests or genetics. Use your genetics for advancement and the bettering of the breed and the world.

Warpaint- Read the post again, I called the left wing Whackos. I wouldn't say you were a whacko.

 

[Wewild]

The hippies are left wing

We still got hippies?

 

[Beef11]

OOOOOOOh Yes, my inlaws are form oregon and the whole state in infested. Greasy buggers to

 

[Wewild]

OOOOOOOh Yes, my inlaws are form oregon and the whole state in infested. Greasy buggers to

What does your wife think of them?