The clones are coming!

[Brandonm2]

I just got this from the Angus email list......

"FDA May Approve Meat From Cloned Animals

Meatingplace.com reports the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) is ready to approve the sale of meat and milk from cloned animals by year-end. The report notes that a front-page story in the Washington Post indicated "the three-year process is nearing completion, as veterinary experts have decided meat from cloned animals and their offspring poses no risk to consumers."

FDA pointed out that it is approving clones, which are essentially twins, not genetically modified animals, the report said."


I think scientifically there is not one bit of difference between a steak from a cloned calf or cheddar cheese made from milk from a clone and I can't think of any scientific reason not to approve the use of clones in the food supply; but the $BILLION question is.....will the public care? Are we risking losing market share to consumer hysteria or will this be an excuse to keep American meat out of some overseas markets???

 

[*Cowgirl*]

I too think that the milk and meat of a clone will taste the same as any other cow. But, I really don't see the need to eat cloned animals. With the amount of money it takes to clone an animal, I sure as heck wouldn't sell it for hamburger. (Unless it had fertility issues) You only clone the best animals, and they aren't destined for the slaughter house. As for milk I don't know, they do so much to milk from the time it leaves the udder to the time it gets to Wal-Mart, would it really matter?

We haven't manipulated anything. We've just created an exactly identical twin.

 

[C HOLLAND]

Another thing it might impact. Registered Cattle,,,, Think about how flushing cows has got out of hand, what do you think this will do to the industry.

 

[Caustic Burno]

Another thing it might impact. Registered Cattle,,,, Think about how flushing cows has got out of hand, what do you think this will do to the industry.

If it gets to the point we are having to clone cattle I am out there is just something about playing God that doesn't set right.
Not today or tomorrow but I see this has diaster written all over it as the gene pool continues to shrink.

 

[*Cowgirl*]

Another thing it might impact. Registered Cattle,,,, Think about how flushing cows has got out of hand, what do you think this will do to the industry.

There are already clones of club calf bulls.
Heat Wave has a clone, Wave on Wave. I think there's an All About You clone. They were making plans to clone Who Made Who, but I don't know if they did.

 

[Beef11]

Think about how flushing cows has got out of hand

How has it gotten out of hand? I think we should do more of it. The ban on cloned animals has been voluntary for some time. I have had very close contact with clones and been privy to clone research that hasn't hit the picture. As far as playing God thats what the argument was against AI then ET and now clones. One thing cloning doesn't offer is genetic improvement but it doesn't offer backstepping either, AI and ET offer them both. Cloning will keep you in the exact same place.

 

[warpaint]

This has been a serious discussion in the TLBAA for the past couple of years.
Should clones be allowed to compete in the Horn Showcase or not?

A survey of breeders said, on the majority, " if they have their own class".

Personally, I wouldn't do it. To my way of thinking, if you clone, you are gong away from the true nature of things. JMO.

 

[Brandonm2]

I too think that the milk and meat of a clone will taste the same as any other cow. But, I really don't see the need to eat cloned animals. With the amount of money it takes to clone an animal, I sure as heck wouldn't sell it for hamburger. (Unless it had fertility issues) You only clone the best animals, and they aren't destined for the slaughter house. As for milk I don't know, they do so much to milk from the time it leaves the udder to the time it gets to Wal-Mart, would it really matter?

We haven't manipulated anything. We've just created an exactly identical twin.

Really it is not that expensive. I saw an ad last month in the Angus Journal for an outfit that is charging $~15,000 for one clone, $~12,500 for the second, $~10,000 for the third, etc and they will clone your pig for $4000. Considering that some people are paying $57000 or more for one donor cow, they might as well clone her and make her immortal

Cyagra has a long list of reasons why they think you should clone...
http://www.cyagra.com/whyclone.htm

Inevitably though if people are cloning their favorite cow, those cows are going to get old, crippled, burned up from over flushing, or what you or I thought of as "perfect" might be seen as out of date genetics by the person who buys out or inherits our herd. If we had had cloning back in the early 50s we could have cloned Prince Sunbeam and the shortest squattest of the Dominos. At some point somewhere, those aged, injured, or "dated" clones have to be disposed of. Right now a bullet to the brain and a backhoe hole is the only legal way to "cull" a clone. When it is legal to eat the clones they can enter the food chain like the rest of the canner cutter cows.

I do think this has more of an impact on the dairy biz. If you have 80 cows producing 25,000 lbs of milk or less and one cow at 55,000 why NOT just clone that freaky top cow?

 

[Beef11]

Two questions

1. What in the heck is the TLBAA?

2. What about identical twins should they have their own class or would they have to show with the clones? What about ET or AI calves being how the are away from the natural order. What about cattle that are selectively bred for certain traits other than surviveability that seems a deviation from the natural order doesn't it? Clones have been around alot longer than ET calves or AI calves, We just started picking who got cloned recently. The whole industry is based on manipulation of the natural way the key is maintaining balance while achieving progress.

 

[Brandonm2]

Another thing it might impact. Registered Cattle,,,, Think about how flushing cows has got out of hand, what do you think this will do to the industry.

Yeah, why pay $18,000 for a son of EXT (for example) when you COULD just buy an 18 month old "CLONE of EXT"? In 20 years, instead of buying semen or embryos we could just read a catalog of bulls and order the clone of the sire we most admire. I don't get into steer shows much; BUT if you really want to win instead of guessing about a 100 day old calf you COULD just clone the year before last year's show winning steer!

 

[warpaint]

Two questions

1. What in the heck is the TLBAA?

2. What about identical twins should they have their own class or would they have to show with the clones? What about ET or AI calves being how the are away from the natural order. What about cattle that are selectively bred for certain traits other than surviveability that seems a deviation from the natural order doesn't it? Clones have been around alot longer than ET calves or AI calves, We just started picking who got cloned recently. The whole industry is based on manipulation of the natural way the key is maintaining balance while achieving progress.

1. The Texas Longhorn Breeders Association of America
2. We're not talking about natural born calves, but a clone .
3. Et and AI are coming from a pair, not a cow, that has had her dna cloned to put an exact duplicate of herslf on the ground.

 

[Beef11]

We're not talking about natural born calves, but a clone .

Clones are carried in-utero just like any other calf and born just like any other calf they have a twin just like many calves the only difference is their twin is older.

3. Et and AI are coming from a pair, not a cow, that has had her dna cloned to put an exact duplicate of herself on the ground.

Clones have parents to. if you have a clone it has the exact same pedigree as its "twin" imagine that you clone the pedigree as well. If you parentage test a clone to its parents it will pass, indicating that they are its parents.

The problems surrounding clones and any hesitance to accept them stem mostly from ignorance and left wing hippy rhetoric.

 

[Caustic Burno]

We're not talking about natural born calves, but a clone .

Clones are carried in-utero just like any other calf and born just like any other calf they have a twin just like many calves the only difference is their twin is older.

3. Et and AI are coming from a pair, not a cow, that has had her dna cloned to put an exact duplicate of herself on the ground.

Clones have parents to. if you have a clone it has the exact same pedigree as its "twin" imagine that you clone the pedigree as well. If you parentage test a clone to its parents it will pass, indicating that they are its parents.

The problems surrounding clones and any hesitance to accept them stem mostly from ignorance and left wing hippy rhetoric.

It's the Christian right that has a problem with clones, I don't fiush or AI either.

 

[longhorn314]

We're not talking about natural born calves, but a clone .

Clones are carried in-utero just like any other calf and born just like any other calf they have a twin just like many calves the only difference is their twin is older.

3. Et and AI are coming from a pair, not a cow, that has had her dna cloned to put an exact duplicate of herself on the ground.

Clones have parents to. if you have a clone it has the exact same pedigree as its "twin" imagine that you clone the pedigree as well. If you parentage test a clone to its parents it will pass, indicating that they are its parents.

The problems surrounding clones and any hesitance to accept them stem mostly from ignorance and left wing hippy rhetoric.

It's the Christian right that has a problem with clones, I don't fiush or AI either.

:clap: :clap: I sometimes don't agree with you Caustic but I agree with you 100%.If God didn't make it ,I ain't eating or touching it.

 

[Beef11]

Did God not give us dominion over the beasts? Genesis 1:26 where do we draw this line in the sands do we not castrate or Select a bull as that is manipulating nature? Should we run gatherer type operations where the cattle are run as they would in the wild? What about vaccinations? As i said before it sounds alot like hippy rhetoric.

 

[Cattleman200]

FDA May Approve Meat From Cloned Animals

I am sure that this has already been approved. They have been cloning club calf sires for several years and allowing them to sell semen on them. No other place to go but the food chain on the steers. Also several months ago Coleman Limousin was approved by NALF to sell semen on two clones of Cole First Down. Once this semen gets sold there is no way possible down the road to know if animals were out of a clone or not. At $25 per straw any commercial breeder could use it with no records of where the calves are later. NALF approved sale of the First Down clone semen and agreed to register calves out of the bulls. I am sure they would not have done that without FDA approval or suffer Federal violations. It would be the same result in the food chain on any cloned animal. You can check it out here http://www.colemanlimousinranch.com .

Circle H Ranch
http://www.chrlimousin.com

 

[Brandonm2]

There have been no restrictions at all on selling the milk from or meat from the offspring of a clone; but it is a federal crime to actually sale a clone on the rail or the milk from an actual clone. Dairys which have cloned their top cows, can legally sell the clone's calves for veal; but the clone's milk has had to be discarded (or fed to calves) and the clone itself could not legally enter the food supply. That policy is about too change.

 

[warpaint]

We're not talking about natural born calves, but a clone .

Clones are carried in-utero just like any other calf and born just like any other calf they have a twin just like many calves the only difference is their twin is older.

3. Et and AI are coming from a pair, not a cow, that has had her dna cloned to put an exact duplicate of herself on the ground.

Clones have parents to. if you have a clone it has the exact same pedigree as its "twin" imagine that you clone the pedigree as well. If you parentage test a clone to its parents it will pass, indicating that they are its parents.

The problems surrounding clones and any hesitance to accept them stem mostly from ignorance and left wing hippy rhetoric.

So, you're saying I'm a left wing Hippie?
I'll assume that you don't know me very well, and further that you do cloning or know somebody who does.

 

[Brandonm2]

We're not talking about natural born calves, but a clone .

Clones are carried in-utero just like any other calf and born just like any other calf they have a twin just like many calves the only difference is their twin is older.

3. Et and AI are coming from a pair, not a cow, that has had her dna cloned to put an exact duplicate of herself on the ground.

Clones have parents to. if you have a clone it has the exact same pedigree as its "twin" imagine that you clone the pedigree as well. If you parentage test a clone to its parents it will pass, indicating that they are its parents.

The problems surrounding clones and any hesitance to accept them stem mostly from ignorance and left wing hippy rhetoric.

It's the Christian right that has a problem with clones, I don't fiush or AI either.

:clap: :clap: I sometimes don't agree with you Caustic but I agree with you 100%.If God didn't make it ,I ain't eating or touching it.

God still made it. ALL we are doing is taking a piece of the cow's ear and extracting the genetic material to make another copy of the cow. We are not actually assembling a DNA strand from scratch and in the cloning process being discussed here we are not altering the DNA. Human cloning is where there are moral problems since there have been some flawed clones. It would be irresponsible to do anything that might increase the likelihood of producing a disabled child. Once the process is perfected where "accidents" happen no more often than with natural matings, the human cloning issue will probably be revisited; though I fail to see where there is a justifiable need.

 

[warpaint]

We're not talking about natural born calves, but a clone .

Clones are carried in-utero just like any other calf and born just like any other calf they have a twin just like many calves the only difference is their twin is older.

3. Et and AI are coming from a pair, not a cow, that has had her dna cloned to put an exact duplicate of herself on the ground.

Clones have parents to. if you have a clone it has the exact same pedigree as its "twin" imagine that you clone the pedigree as well. If you parentage test a clone to its parents it will pass, indicating that they are its parents.

The problems surrounding clones and any hesitance to accept them stem mostly from ignorance and left wing hippy rhetoric.

It's the Christian right that has a problem with clones, I don't fiush or AI either.

:clap: :clap: I sometimes don't agree with you Caustic but I agree with you 100%.If God didn't make it ,I ain't eating or touching it.

God still made it. ALL we are doing is taking a piece of the cow's ear and extracting the genetic material to make another copy of the cow. We are not actually assembling a DNA strand from scratch and in the cloning process being discussed here we are not altering the DNA. Human cloning is where there are moral problems since there have been some flawed clones. It would be irresponsible to do anything that might increase the likelihood of producing a disabled child. Once the process is perfected where "accidents" happen no more often than with natural matings, the human cloning issue will probably be revisited; though I fail to see where there is a justifiable need.

So it's okay to clone a defenseless animal but not a human, cause that just aint right? :roll: